--- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > Nice. Do you happen to have (or have the URL of) > > > the original Spanish version of this poem, or even > > > the name of the translator? I ask because I have > > > been unable to find either on the Web today... > > > > Still don't know the translator, but for those > > who, like me, were curious as to what the original > > looked like, here t'is: > > > > Entréme donde no supe, > > y quedéme no sabiendo, > > toda sciencia trascendiendo. > > I only typed in about half of the Spanish poem > (because I got tired of typing), but it was this > first verse that concerned me anyway. When I read > the first translation that gullible_fool posted, > something didn't sound quite "right" about it to > me, because San Juan de la Cruz was a very > *personal* mystic, writing primarily about his > own subjective experiences, and didn't tend to > use more general, abstract words like "unknowing." > So I was curious. > > A more literal translation of the first line > might thus be, "I entered where I did not know." > That could mean many things. It could be that > he did not know the "where" or the "place" that > he entered, or it could mean that he entered a > "place" where he did not "know" *anything*. But > the key issue is that he didn't enter into an > abstract place of "unknowing," but into a place > where *he* "did not know." It's the *personal* > element to his poetry that I was looking for. > > But the most fun translation issue in this > first (and recurring) verse is the word > 'sciencia.' That's not Spanish; it's Catalan, > and in Catalan it was used in the 16th century > to refer to everything from 'science' itself > to astrology, alchemy, and more generally, any > form of organized or systemized knowledge. So > the last line of the recurring stanza is even > more of a mystery than the first, since St. John > could be saying "trancending all knowledge," as > the first translation implied, as a way of saying > that what he experienced was not "understandable," > or he could be saying "transcending all forms of > systemitized knowledge," implying the more common > mystical stance that one could have a sense of > "understanding" while *in* the altered state of > attention that is *not* "understandable" when > trying to describe it or remember it afterwards, > using the language of any kind of formal or > systemitized knowledge. The latter sounds more > "right" to me, given some of his other poems. > > Who can tell, especially when one doesn't even > speak Spanish, much less Catalan? Still, it's > fun to play with these things... > > Damn! I've turned into cardemeister... :-) >
Actually, every online translator turns "trascendiendo" into "extending." THAT certainly gives it a different flavor...
