--- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], new.morning no_reply@ wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think in the style of abuse we're talking about here, > > > what distinguishes it as abnormal is a power disparity > > > between the two parties and less the age disparity-- > > > although age to certain extent plays into it if you > > > assume some naivete on the part of the younger "victim". > > > In that sense power disparity (or even *perceived* power > > > disparity) together with the naivete of youth could be > > > potent factor for an old "lecher's" success. > > It's not just about naïveté. Many of the women > I talked to are worldly to the max. They've been > around the block, romantically and sexually. They > were no naïve victims. And they all *knew* that > this was a path with disaster written all over > it, but they took that path anyway. > > Some did it out of love, pure and simple. The love > one has for a spiritual teacher you revere as more > than human, and the love that one has for a very > human, warm lover who can be sweet to them and make > them come. Some of those who loved him then love him > still, even if at the same time they feel that what > he did was inappropriate and ill-considered. > > Some did it out of fear of the balance of power, and > that's what your post dealt with most. I think that > one reason so many spiritual seekers are so willing > to do *anything* rather than believe these types of > claims about their teacher is that they're unwilling > to admit that the environment they're in *has* an > uneven balance of power, and that they're on the low > end of it. If you are strongly committed to your > spiritual path, and some person has the power to > make it such that you cannot *follow* your path > (i.e., throw you out of the organization), then is > your decision to sleep with such a person ever > *really* uncoerced? > > > Power abuse has always been "the" issue for me. Though > > its not cyrstal clear what is abuse among consenting > > adults. In pure power plays, I would postulate that > > "hard come ons" by a Bevan or John H., if done as > > alleged, was more a power abuse than MMY with a J. > > But I suppose a case could be made either way. > > > > I have read a variety of accounts, of various teachers, > > and see how some students were quite messed up by the > > relation. OTOH, I have heard of, and can hypothesize, > > situations where both parties are happy with > > the relationship. > > > > So I don't think power and abuse are necesarily inherent > > in a teacher student relation. Though it doesn't seem > > to be a stable or productive for organizational cohesion. > > I've actually run into a couple of teacher-student > relationships that I consider "clean," true ahimsa, > beneficial to both parties, and with seemingly no > repercussions within the organization. So I don't > rule it out, either. > > But I will say that both of the relationships I am > talking about were between fellow Tibetans. I'm > not convinced it's possible in relationships in > which one of the people is Western. Too many > hangups, too much imprinting brought into > the equation.
"Some did it out of fear of the balance of power, and that's what your post dealt with most. I think that one reason so many spiritual seekers are so willing to do *anything* rather than believe these types of claims about their teacher is that they're unwilling to admit that the environment they're in *has* an uneven balance of power, and that they're on the low end of it. If you are strongly committed to your spiritual path, and some person has the power to make it such that you cannot *follow* your path (i.e., throw you out of the organization), then is your decision to sleep with such a person ever *really* uncoerced?" This is the heart of the matter. Some people will justify any bad behavior. JohnY
