On Wednesday 13 August 2008, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
>On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Gene Heskett 
>> Can gstreamer do what an offshore ffmpeg can?
>ffmpeg can do a lot that is not directly tied to a specific encumbered
>encoding. All libraries end up decoding the encumbered formats and using
>some sort of internal representation of the stream that is useful to work
>with as a raw data source.  Video editting does not strictly require
>encumbered crap.  If we had the video editting application such as kino in
>the distro...we could edit raw dv from camcorders into quite usable compress
>theora videos.
>Sadly kino relies on ffmpg to do this. So I could rip out the encumbered
>bits from ffmpeg, include that as a package..and then package kino to use
>it. In fact I personally have such a package, but I haven't submitted any of
>it for inclusion..because including that sort of thing would mean that the
>users of that package could not add support for other codecs to use with
>kino. They'd be stuck with my crippled ffmpeg and thus a crippled kino.  And
>it would be marginally harder for them to install a fully functional kino
>once my package was available. 3rd party repos which provide a fully
>functional ffmpeg and kino would have to bend over backwards to work around
>my 'crippled' ffmpeg stack. And as much as I want to make useful video
>production tools available in distro..I don't want to make work harder for
>the maintainers and users of those 3rd party repsotiories.
>All of this because ffmpeg doesn't deal with plugin technology at any level.
>Unlike xine... unlike gstreamer.
>> I think not, regardless of how
>> much better it can handle plugins, you would still be removing those bits
>infinitely better support...since ffmpeg has no support at all for runtime
>detection of codec support.  c'mon even windows media player's framework
>lets you add codec support as plugins doesn't it?
>> that actually make it work.  Also, gstreamer, which might be somebodies
>> pet for all I know, seems to do weird things that require a tap on the
>> reset button here, so AFAIAC, its not ready for prime time either.
>> Whats a 'pitivi'?
>I suggest you make an effort to read up on gstreamer and the applications
>which are attempting to make use of it.  gst is already pretty deeply
>integrated into the default gnome application stack. You are probably making
>use of the framework without knowing it already.
>If you want to work on a technical solution towards better video production
>tools in Fedora, gstreamer's pretty much the only framework that's flexible
>enough to build on with out running directly into legal issues to get
>anything in at all.
>Pitivi is a simple non-linear editor that is in distro right now, but it
>needs some love.  There are several of music sequencing applications based
>on gst, and there are some reasonably good video playback applictions out
>there, even video streaming and capturing apps... but the one thing that is
>really unexplored is video editing.
>If all you want to do is get mad and shake your first in the air and march
>around in a little circle beating your chest at the fact that we are
>cautious about legal issues..including patently unreasonable things..like
>software patents...I guess I can't stop you..but you should know...you look
>really funny doing it... and its not helpful.
I wasn't trying to be funny, Jef.  In fact, since I've got sugar and am 
several years the far side of 70 already, only a masochist would enjoy 
watching that.  But I am a great believer in making things work the way I 
want them to work, and going to an offshore distro seems to me to be the most 
efficient use of my remaining time.  I need it to work now, not at some point 
in an indefinitely measured future.  That's all that has ever been promised, 
and there have been 2 or 3 multimedia editors marched in as being the current 
version of kitten britches since FC2 & a kino that worked, and each has 
fallen by the wayside.  It seems the coders can come up with a pretty face & 
nothing behind it, or difficult to use cli tools, and never the twain shall 
meet under US law.

>You want to be helpful? Work towards getting a mature video editting app on
>this list:
>If we can get that done, that would go a long way.

My days of giving code a bunch of much needed TLC were 15 years ago, and about 
56 bits narrower a data bus.  Now I play canary in a coal mine by running the 
last Linus blessed rc kernel, 2.6.27-rc3 ATM.

Nah. I've used kino before.  The button has been pushed, and Ubuntu 8.04 is 
coming in via ktorrent right now.

Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Hope is a waking dream.
                -- Aristotle

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