Ohai, MaryChristine...I'm happy that you posted the website yet again...it's 
the first time I have seen it!  You rock, mai fondue fren!Debbie (COL)"You 
gotta bloom where you're planted!"

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:53:49 -0400From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]: Re: [Felvtalk] Introducing Daisy's Babies
unfortunately, not enough vets know as much as they really ought to. many, many 
times i wish that i knew MORE, because i am NOT a vet, i am NOT a virologist, 
and just do my best to make the things i've found clearer to others--and hope 
that those who know more than i do, will do likewise!i think that EVERYONE who 
has a FeLV, and who knows one, or who ever has loved one, needs to play out 
copies of--of have the url to tattooed where they can show it everyone--the 
most recent merck manual, where they've got the most up-to-date figures about 
how many cats do NOT remain viremic after exposure..... shelters, rescues, 
vets, people who claim to follow alley cat allies' policy yet in practice test 
all cats and then KILL felvs (yet brag about the FeLVs they have at home): 
there are no excuses for ignorance, and now that the anecdotal info that the 
brave people who came before us is reaching the mainstream, ignorance about 
FeLV is a CHOICE when made by professionals, veterinary or rescue. here's that 
link again, and while i DO get tired of posting it, oh, well, if i don't (and 
you don't, and you don't, and you, there, over in the corner snuggling with 
your cute little FeLV baby, don't), no one else will.....) The Merck Veterinary 
Manual -Feline Leukemia Virus and Related Diseases: Introduction do you have 
other cats? (yeah, i know, i could go back and reread everything, but.....) are 
you isolating the little ones because of their FeLV status, or presumed status? 
are the older ones vaccinated against FeLV? if so, you really don't have to 
worry about them mixing with the young ones if the adults are healthy.... as 
the old-timers on this list can tell you, so far no one has been able to find a 
single, documented case of a TRUE negative (tested at least twice, with enough 
time for exposure and seroconversion times taken into consideration) becoming 
positive from LIVING with (closely, not just breathing on in passing) a TRUE 
positive (as above; testing positive over time, using at least two kinds of 
tests). current vaccination efficacy rates at 95% (yes, i am trying to find 
WHERE that figure is hiding in my hard drive; i know it was susan little, dvm, 
of the winn feline foundation, that gave that figure to a cat-health list in 
the past two or three years. many places state--not always with any proof or 
citation--that cats seem to develop a natural immunity to the FeLV virus around 
the age of one year, and with the KNOWN high percentage quoted in the merck re: 
ability to remain or become negative after exposure, anyone can see how 
miniscule the risk is for a vaccinated cat.is there a risk? of course there is. 
is it a higher risk than the same negative cat is going to have some genetic 
defect in its own history you have no knowledge of? i'm starting to think the 
latter is a much higher probability....you might want to talk with some of the 
folks who have positives running around their houses with the rest, now and in 
the past, and see why they made that decision....i wish that i could tell you 
that these little ones will, indeed, throw off the virus on their own and be as 
adoptable as any others. kittens with FeLV still appear to have less of a 
chance at a long life than those infected later in life, but we don't know 
enough to say why, and which ones have the best chance, nor what we can do to 
ensure that they get that absolute best chance. thank you for loving them. 
that's the best gift of all, anyway.MC
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 6:49 PM, Sharyl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Thanks MC for explaining the ELISHA test.  I had Mattie tested when her Mom. 
Daisy, was spayed.  A lady here on the Eastern Shore drives up to MD once a 
month to a vet who does low cost spaying for rescues.   She doesn't know 
anything about FeLV and just relayed the vets comments.  
Sissy and Rocket have had two ELISHA tests 4 months apart.  When I 1st rescued 
them and again when they were spayed.  Since they were FeLV+ I went with the 
local high cost vet for the spaying.   Didn't want them stressed any more than 
necessary.  I plan to have the IFA test done late this yr.  Both are currently 
the picture of health and tired of being quarantined in the bedroom.  
I have read the info on the Ally Cats web site.  I agree that healthy cats 
should not be PTS.  The Yahoo Rescue group I belong to feels that TNR kitties 
should not be tested as long as they are healthy when spayed/neutered.   Like 
the military 'don't ask, don't tell' philosophy.  The exception is any cat that 
will be placed for adoption.
There were 5 kittens in Sissy and Rocket's litter,  One vanished.  One, Daisy, 
has been TNR and I have one, Mae, to go.  No idea who their Mom was.  I haven't 
see any likely candidates around the dumpster site.  With 3 negative inside 
cats I just can't take them all in.   I think I have lined up a forever home 
for 2 of the babies, Bright Eyes and Houdini, in a home with FeLV+ cats.  Since 
Mattie is blind and Capt.CJ only has sight in one eye, I'll keep them.  So far 
I have just had Mattie tested.  No reason not to believe all 4 babies are 
positive.  I will have them tested when they are spayed.   Maybe, since they 
are no longer nursing and eating well, they can kick it.
Thanks for your input.
Sharyl--- On Sat, 7/19/08, MaryChristine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: MaryChristine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Introducing Daisy's BabiesTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 
Saturday, July 19, 2008, 2:59 PM 

just wondering if you are working with alley cat allies, and following their 
protocol re: testing and releasing/treating FeLV cats? my understanding is that 
they do not endorse euthanizing positive, asymptomatic cats, so testing daisy 
would only give you some health information. i believe they have a really good 
explanation for how they've come to their decisions re: testing--i am also very 
aware that their decision regarding this is controversial. all the of the 
experienced feral rescuers i know personally, however, whether they have 
specific experience with FeLV or not, have said the same thing: we do NOT kill 
healthy cats just because they MIGHT get sick at some point.what a concept!and 
also not sure what you mean when you say the cats have tested positive--using 
which tests? how far apart? 
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:21 AM, Sharyl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I have been feeding a dumpster colony of kitties for several months with the 
goal of doing TNR (trap/neuter/release) for those that I can not rescue.  Of 
the 3 kittens I rescued 2, Sissy and Rocket, were FeLV+.  They are about 9 
months old now and are doing well.  Both have test positive twice.
Their sister, Daisy, had a litter before I was able to TNR her.  The kittens 
were approx. 4 weeks old when I got them.  I took them because 1 had both eyes 
stuck shut and 1 had 1 eye stuck shut.  The next day I was finally able to trap 
Daisy using a kitten as bait in the carrier.    Daisy has since been spayed and 
released.  The babies have received one worm treatment, got terramycin salve in 
their eyes for a week, and have lysine added to their food.  
It appears that Mattie will be blind.  She is the biggest of the 4 and very 
feisty.   I had her tested and the vet said she was very, very, very FeLV+.  No 
idea what 3 verys mean.  CJ may have some limited vision in her bad eye.  
Bright Eyes and Houdini (escaped from the dog crate twice now) seem healthy.   
I am adding L-Lysine and Mega C Plus to their food.  I am looking for advice on 
what else I can do to help them throw off this virus.  
They will each be tested when I have them spayed.   Sissy and Rocket were 
several months old when I rescued them.  Didn't know if starting treatments 
earlier would improve the odds that they could beat this.   Any advise on how 
to proceed with now 5 1/2 wk old kittens would be appreciated.
By the way Stormie, same colony but different Mom from Sissy, Rocket and Daisy, 
tested negative.  I did not have Daisy tested.  I knew I could not afford to 
keep her if she was positive and simply do not have the disposition to have a 
cat PTS simply because she is positive.   At least she will not have any more 
litters.  There is one more sister, Mae, that I have been trying to trap for 
Sharyl Sissy, Rocket and the 
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