Hi!
I have experience with subqs.
Nori is really better today! She ate 2 dishes of wet food while i was
there. She is more active and attentive to what happens.
Neurologist said Nori has a deficiency on the left side of the body, as if
she had a stroke. It can be because of anemia, an inflammation or even
malnutrition.
Vet added a brain supplement (MCT's) to Nori's prescription.
Fip isn't discarded but felv also justify this condition so I hope she has
nothing more.
Vets said maybe Nori can come home tomorrow :)
Thank you!
Patrícia
Em sáb, 8 de jun de 2019 às 23:23, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
escreveu:
> One option is to ask your vet to show you how to give her subcutaneous
> fluids, which I do all the time for my cats if needed. However, for now, it
> makes sense to leave her there I guess. I presume they are warming the IV
> fluids too, because again, with such a small kitten, it wouldn’t take much
> to chill her if the fluids are at room temperature or colder.
>
>
>
> I guess it’s just me. I am pretty adamant about taking home my cats
> whenever possible, but I understand that Nori sounds like she needs some
> extra help. I just find that the cats respond far better to personal
> cuddling and love, and this makes them feel better, eat more, etc.
>
>
>
> Hopefully, she will feel better tomorrow.
>
>
>
> I’m crossing my fingers for you and Nori.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> * On Behalf Of
> *Patricia
> Oliveira
> *Sent:* June 8, 2019 9:53 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Rescued kitten felv +
>
>
>
> She has fluids IV all the time and replenishment of potassium. Receives
> external heating too.
>
>
>
> They monitor pressure (low sometimes), oxygenation, temperature and heart
> rate several times a day.
>
> I wish she could come home soon but she has been dehydrated even with
> fluids IV. I don´t know if it is safe to bring her now.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Em sáb, 8 de jun de 2019 às 22:03, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> escreveu:
>
> Patricia
>
>
>
> I agree with you that it is too early to tell, but for sure it is good
> news that the haematocrit is moving in the right direction. Very good news
> on the rosy gingiva.
>
>
>
> Rouleaux is likely only due to the transfusion. She appears to have had a
> bit of transfusion reaction, so the cells may be sticking to one another as
> a result. (Red cells in Rouleaux formation means that the look like a stack
> of coins – one on top of the other. In humans, that presentation is
> consistent with multiple myeloma. I don’t think it means anything right now
> other than the new red cells may be reacting a bit with her own cells).
>
>
>
> I think she is working through the transfusion reaction, so that is likely
> why she is sleeping because you said that immediately after the
> transfusion, she was active and eating on her own.
>
>
>
> Low platelets are consistent with the FeLV presentation and the impact on
> the bone marrow. Hopefully, the Stanozolol will help. I seem to recall that
> with my Zander, I had the red cell numbers recover first, before the
> platelets recovered.
>
>
>
> I presume they have her on a heating pad to keep her body temperature up.
>
>
>
> I suspect it might be premature to look at the neurology right now. She is
> working through a lot, and is a tiny kitten. She needs to be given time to
> recover from the transfusion reaction, and to allow the good food and
> medication to start to work. I don’t know how a neurological diagnosis
> could help you now, and one would expect the neurologist will have a
> difficult time seeing a true neurological deficit, with all the rest of the
> stuff happening.
>
>
>
> I would also suggest that at some point, it is better for her to be with
> you at home. If they are not giving her anything like fluids, you might
> consider taking her home with you. I know with Zander, he reacted most
> strongly when I was there with him. I could get him to play a little bit
> and that made him feel better, and of course, lots of cuddles and kisses.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> *On Behalf Of *Patricia
> Oliveira
> *Sent:* June 8, 2019 8:52 PM
> *To:* Sandra Wachtstetter <swacht1...@comcast.net>;
> felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Rescued kitten felv +
>
>
>
> Thank you, Sandra :)
>
>
>
> I visited Nori today. The hospital is in another city so I can't go there
> every day.
>
>
>
> She is a rosy gingiva, but continues to sleep most of the time and with a
> low temperature. One of the veterinarians there thinks that temperature is
> lower because of malnutrition, she has almost no lean mass and no fat.
>
>
>
> Nori will go through the evaluation of a neurologist tomorrow. Some
> hypotheses raised for this prostration are neurological, including a
> possible hypoxia before the first transfusion when her hematocrit was
> really low.
>
>
>
> Her blood work today is 30% hematocrit, the higher till now! So i think
> red cells aren´t being destroyed anymore, is it right or is it early to
> know?
>
>
>
> Some red cells in Rouleaux. Leukocytes are still high (> 26.000), low
> platelets for the first time (92.000).
>
>
>
> Nori had an echocardiogram today too and it is ok.
>
>
>
> Thank you!
>
>
>
> Patrícia
>
>
>
> Em sáb, 8 de jun de 2019 às 11:40, Sandra Wachtstetter <
> swacht1...@comcast.net> escreveu:
>
> Hello Patricia, you may already be doing this - but if not, please take a
> copy of Amani's conversations for the vet to read - may help.
>
> Good luck - don't give up!!
>
> Sandt W
>
>
>
> On June 7, 2019 at 9:55 PM Patricia Oliveira <cinzaeamar...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Nori did not want to eat by herself so they are syringing food. They
> started another medication for nausea, although she does not vomit, they
> think that may be why she does not eat.
>
>
>
> Blood work showed changes in neutrophils (bizarre core?), veternary says
> it can be from leukemia.
>
>
>
> The result of this transfusion was not as good as the other time :(
>
>
>
> i´ll talk to veterinary tomorrow morning again.
>
>
>
> thank you!
>
>
>
> Patrícia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Em sex, 7 de jun de 2019 às 16:13, Amani Oakley < aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> escreveu:
>
> Still sounds more like a transfusion reaction than anything with the meds.
>
>
>
> Hang in there. See what the afternoon labs show.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> *On Behalf Of *Patricia
> Oliveira
> *Sent:* June 7, 2019 1:44 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Rescued kitten felv +
>
>
>
> Hi, Amani
>
>
>
> Nori is receiving doxy+prenisolone+stanazolol even in the hospital.
>
>
>
> I know it can be a reaction but i thought higher dose of prednisolone
> would prevent hemolysis.
>
>
>
> I also know it's normal for part of the red blood cells to be cleared
> right after the transfusion, but i don´t remember if it was icteric plasma
> on last one.
>
>
>
> I was hopefull she would come back home tomorrow, now i don´t know if it
> will be possible.
>
>
>
> Today she must have am echocardiogram too because x-ray showed an enlarged
> heart.
>
>
>
> Thank you!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Em sex, 7 de jun de 2019 às 14:18, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> escreveu:
>
> Hi Patricia
>
>
>
> The Stanozolol often has a side-effect of elevating liver enzymes, though
> I cannot remember if it also increased bilirubin (which would be what would
> cause the icteric observation of the plasma). However, hang in there. If it
> is the Stanozolol, my experience is that the liver enzymes drop right back
> to normal, shortly after it is discontinued, and there is no lasting damage
> to the liver. For now, what you have described (low temp and slightly lower
> heart rate) seems more likely to be related to the transfusion itself,
> rather than anything else going on.
>
>
>
> It is also possible that with the additional transfusion, there is a
> higher than normal red cell destruction going on, which would be another
> explanation for the increased icterus in the blood (which will also show as
> an increase in bilirubin). Elevated bilirubin can often be caused by a
> reaction to a blood transfusion. If the high bilirubin is the indirect or
> the unconjugated portion, it is related to red cell break down. The direct
> bilirubin (conjugated portion) is related to liver function. The lab
> results are usually broken down to Total bilirubin and Direct bilirubin.
> The indirect portion is obtained by subtracting the direct amount from the
> total amount.
>
>
>
> I myself went through the pressure of the vets wanting me to discontinue
> the Stanozolol because of abnormal liver enzymes. My logic was that there
> was nothing else. If I discontinued the Stanozolol, my cat would die,
> period. I continued and found that in the end, the liver enzymes normalized
> on their own, even though I had Zander on almost continuous Stanozolol for
> close to two years.
>
>
>
> I know that you know that you are only temporarily helping Nori with blood
> transfusions, and the virus is still attacking cells, etc. In my opinion –
> and mine alone – my experience and research leads me to the conclusion that
> the combination of Doxycycline/Prednisone/Stanozolol worked to not only
> boost the red cell production, but I believe that the Doxycyline assisted
> in keeping the viruses from properly reproducing.
>
>
>
> However, anticipate that when the vet gets back the second set of blood
> work, she may well try to tell you to discontinue the Stanozolol.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> *On Behalf Of *Patricia
> Oliveira
> *Sent:* June 7, 2019 12:53 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Rescued kitten felv +
>
>
>
> Hi, Amani!
>
>
>
> Nori got another transfusion last night, hematocrit was 11.9 before it.
>
>
>
> Today morning, i talk to the hospital's veterinarian, she said hematocrit
> went to 29 and Nori was fine, all normal parameters and eating by herself
> again.
>
>
>
> But plasma was intensely icteric. I think this means red cells being
> destroyed, isn't it?
>
>
>
> About one hour ago, veterinarian said Nori was with low temperature and
> heart rate slightly lower than normal. She was waiting the new blood work.
> In the morning, it was done only hematocrit, not complete blood work.
>
>
>
> i am worried again.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Patrícia
>
>
>
> Em ter, 4 de jun de 2019 às 23:46, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> escreveu:
>
> I would be leery of the going the route suggested by the vet at this
> juncture. I seriously seriously doubt if the erythropoietin will help. See
> my earlier where I explain why.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> *On Behalf Of *Patricia
> Oliveira
> *Sent:* June 4, 2019 8:53 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Rescued kitten felv +
>
>
>
> Hi, Lorraine
>
>
>
> Veterinary wants to increase prednisolone to immunosuppressive dose and
> add erythropoietin. She thinks it is immune-mediated anemia and
> not mycoplasma.
>
>
>
> Nori is receiving 1,2 mg prednisolone, twice a day. She weighs only 1 kg.
>
>
>
> We did x-ray today too. No visible tumor but we found a
> possible cardiopathy ("Increased globular-looking heart silhouette").
>
>
>
> :(
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Em ter, 4 de jun de 2019 às 20:50, Lorraine Johnston <
> johnston1...@comcast.net> escreveu:
>
> Patricia,
>
>
>
> I would go with the transfusion and also start erythropoietin. Stanozolol
> is supposed to stimulate erythropoietin production, but she might need a
> boost of the ready-made drug just to keep her alive until then.
>
>
>
> - Lorraine
>
>
>
> "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the
> things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Patricia Oliveira
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 4, 2019 6:34 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Rescued kitten felv +
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> We did another blood work today, her hematocrit is 13% now :(
>
>
>
> She is very sleepy but responsive when i talk to her.
>
>
>
> I don´t know if i can wait some more days to see if stanozolol is working.
> Or maybe it would be better get another transfusion right now.
>
>
>
> Today, vet talk about erythropoietin. Do you know if it can be used with
> stanozolol?
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Patrícia
>
>
>
> Em sáb, 1 de jun de 2019 às 14:44, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> escreveu:
>
> Hi Patricia – I gave all the pills together, morning and evening, except
> for the metoclopramide which was given ½ or so before meals. The rest I
> gave with the meals. I didn’t observe a problem with giving them together.
>
>
>
> You might also try baby food to get Nori to eat. Get the pureed kind (beef
> or chicken with or without vegetables), so it can be sucked up into a
> syringe. If my Zander wasn’t eating (and he wasn’t at the start of the
> medication regime), then I would use a syringe to get the baby food into
> him. Baby food is easy to digest and has good things in it. I would target
> – say – five 3 cc syringe-fulls at each feeding. I would boost the number
> of syringe-fulls if possible. Eventually, Zander started eating the baby
> food on his own, and then I graduated to moist food, and really, anything
> he wanted until he put the weight back on.
>
>
>
> I had a look at the picture you sent and Nori is adorable. I am crossing
> my fingers for you and for Nori. Keep us updated on her progress.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> *On Behalf Of *Patricia
> Oliveira
> *Sent:* June 1, 2019 12:36 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Rescued kitten felv +
>
>
>
> Hi, Amani!
>
>
>
> Thanky you very much for you email!
>
>
>
> Nori was discharged from the hospital yesterday night. She is eating baby
> dry food. I tried canned but she didn´t accept so weel.
>
>
>
> Today i bought other kinds of canned, i'll try them hoping she likes some
> one.
>
>
>
> Compound pharmacy must delivery stanozolol today.
>
>
>
> Are there any precautions regarding medication schedules? Close or far to
> doxy, for example?
>
>
>
> This is Nori:
> https://catsnecropolis.blogspot.com/2019/06/nori-teve-alta.html
> <https://catsnecropolis.blogspot.com/2019/06/nori-teve-alta.html?fbclid=IwAR0cXMedtfi73B81pJI7QiYGwRTJf9VJp-JN7S_Tstb0ANeg0Hm4ObtFH_A>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you!
>
>
>
> Patrícia
>
>
>
> Em qui, 30 de mai de 2019 às 20:52, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> escreveu:
>
> Sorry Patricia – after going on and on in my last email, I realized I
> hadn’t actually answered your question. I think you can probably use the
> stanozolol with the Doxycycline, without the prednisone, but prednisone
> itself has properties which help to boost red cell production. Try it out,
> keep close tabs on the haematology results and see if you are getting a
> good response on just Doxycycline and the Stanozolol. If not, add the
> prednisone. You may find that this combination assists with the FIP as
> well, as per my previous email.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> *On Behalf Of *Patricia
> Oliveira
> *Sent:* May 30, 2019 12:56 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] Rescued kitten felv +
>
>
>
> Hi from Brazil,
>
>
>
> I rescued a very weak, dehydrated, extremely thin kitten.
>
>
> She's hospitalized now. Her hematocrit was 8, had blood transfusion which
> raised hematocrit to 22, now it is 19. Low reticulocyte count.
>
> She has difficulty walking, which we can not define if it is just weakness
> or neurological. Already had a seizure.
>
> She also have changes in her kidneys. It has been tested and is felv +
>
> She is receiving doxy and the hospital vets would like to include
> prednisolone.
>
> However, as it is not possible yet to rule out PIF, and the medication I
> could use in the case of PIF does not work if the cat received
> prednisolone, I am trying to avoid it.
>
> The veterinarian agreed to prescribe stanozolol.
>
> Can it be used without prednisolone, only with doxy she is already
> receiving?
>
> Thank you!
>
>
>
> Patrícia
>
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