*The "little-8" notation is by far the most exact
(and in theory should be used for piccolo, string
bass, guitar and bass guitar parts, but there's
too much tradition behind the conventional
**notation for those instruments).
*
*
*
I know what you're getting at, but wouldn't it be more accurate to have the
"little-8" *above* the clef for piccolo since it sounds and octave higher?
*
*On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 2:57 PM, John Howell <[email protected]> wrote:
> At 1:02 PM -0700 9/15/11, Mark D Lew wrote:
>>
>>I can't recall it mentioned in this thread yet,
>>but there are various ways to indicate that a
>>treble clef sounds 8vb below. The little "8"
>>below the clef I think is a relatively modern
>>development, and I think it's only with the
>>advent of digital engraving that it has really
>>become standard. Much more common in opera
>>scores is the treble clef with a pair of
>>squiggles to the right that look like a
>>shorthand bracket.
>
> Yes, the "little 8" is recent, and may have been
> used first in scores for recorder ensembles,
> before digital engraving became a personal
> endeavor, with the octave-higher indication for
> soprano (descant) and bass recorders. (Recorders
> actually sound at 4' pitch, an octave above the
> voice parts they're named for, but the
> conventional notation for alto and tenor obscures
> that fact.)
>
> The G-clef + Bracket you mention I've never seen
> in opera scores, but have seen in choral music.
> The idea was to clarify that middle C was on the
> 3rd space (and thus an octave below the regular G
> clef), but it always looked odd because ALL the
> clefs have always been attached to lines, not to
> spaces, for the last thousand years.
>
> Another method--and it may have been Novello--was
> to use two treble clefs side by side, presumably
> assuming that they would weight twice as much as
> a single treble clef and thus sink down an octave
> in pitch!!
>
> The "little-8" notation is by far the most exact
> (and in theory should be used for piccolo, string
> bass, guitar and bass guitar parts, but there's
> too much tradition behind the conventional
> notation for those instruments). It makes the
> other attempts to find a solution look pretty
> dated. And with the dying out of the movable C
> clefs in general use and in music education
> (except for the instruments that have retained
> them as standard) it's probably the best
> compromise by far. (If our original poster were
> playing from string quartet scores, he would
> almost certainly be complaining about having the
> viola in alto clef!)
>
> Broadway piano-vocal scores are even worse than
> opera scores, since plain treble clef is almost
> always used regardless of the voice called for.
> In fact you sometimes can't even figure out which
> octave is intended, and it's easy to make a
> decision that's different from what was done with
> the original cast.
>
> We've got the same problem with late medieval
> music (for those few of us who actually care!).
> Hildegard's wonderful 12th century music was
> notated in a way that LOOKS as if it's for men's
> voices. (The church developed the notation,
> women weren't allowed to sing in church, so there
> was NO notation suitable for women's voice!)
> When the group "Anonymous 4" sings the repertoire
> with women's voices they are not singing in the
> notated octaves, or maybe even with the notated
> pitches, because they've adapted the music to
> their own voices.
>
> John
>
>
> --
> John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
> Virginia Tech Department of Music
> School of Performing Arts & Cinema
> College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
> 290 College Ave., Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0240
> Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034
> (mailto:[email protected])
> http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
>
> "Machen Sie es, wie Sie wollen, machen Sie es nur schön."
> (Do it as you like, just make it beautiful!) --Johannes Brahms
>
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