Sorry Loet, but I just don't see the need for an observer. I do think the difference must be by something to something (perhaps the same thing) but Koichiro's formulation implies this. Again, I warn against unneeded complication.
Sent from Samsung Mobile -------- Original message -------- From: Loet Leydesdorff Date:27/06/2015 10:00 (GMT+02:00) To: 'Koichiro Matsuno' ,John Collier ,'fis' Subject: RE: [Fis] It-from-Bit and information interpretation of QM Koichiro: "In order to make them decidable or meaningful, some qualifier must definitely be needed. A popular example of such a qualifier is a subjective observer." "A difference that makes a difference" for a qualifier, thus requires specification of: 1. The first difference; 2. The second difference; 3. The qualifier (e.g., the observer). The first difference can be measured using Shannon-type information, since a probability distribution can be considered as a set of (first-order) differences. Brillouin tried to specify the second difference as a ?H. ?H can also be negative ("negentropy"). But how does one proceed to the measurement? Best, Loet ________________________________ Loet Leydesdorff Emeritus University of Amsterdam Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR) l...@leydesdorff.net <mailto:l...@leydesdorff.net> ; http://www.leydesdorff.net/ Honorary Professor, SPRU, <http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/> University of Sussex; Guest Professor Zhejiang Univ.<http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/>, Hangzhou; Visiting Professor, ISTIC, <http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html> Beijing; Visiting Professor, Birkbeck<http://www.bbk.ac.uk/>, University of London; http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en From: Fis [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of Koichiro Matsuno Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 9:04 AM To: 'John Collier'; 'fis' Subject: Re: [Fis] It-from-Bit and information interpretation of QM At 4:00 AM 06/27/2015, John Collier wrote: I also see no reason that Bateson's difference that makes a difference needs to involve meaning at either end. [KM] Right. The phrase saying "a difference that makes a difference" must be a prototypical example of second-order logic in that the difference appearing both in the subject and predicate can accept quantification. Most statements framed in second-order logic are not decidable. In order to make them decidable or meaningful, some qualifier must definitely be needed. A popular example of such a qualifier is a subjective observer. However, the point is that the subjective observer is not limited to Alice or Bob in the QBist parlance. Koichiro
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