I'm not interested in any such thing but that is a nice joke (your
mentioning of a "class action lawsuit" but I will be looking out for
the community for no interest other than the younger up and coming
developers). I'm too interested in my Musicology research to get into
that kind of business. I developed an illness in 2001 that causes
extreme ringing in my ears and I've been studying it since (see Oliver
Sacks "Stories of Music and the Brain" - my Minor is in Cognitive
Science, BsCompSci).
But follow this and inform the FTC I certainly will.
I'm older now. You have a tendency as you get older to care a little
more about the people coming up and graduating.
You care about them not making any mistakes and not trusting "Words"
when it's "Actions" of Larger companies that matter.
Make no doubt about it, Adobe does not appear to me at this point like
the same kind of developer group dynamic as Macromedia or for that
matter, the company that changed the last 10 years in computing the
most: FutureWave. Their component was I believe 10k bytes at the time
and delivered amazing cell-based animation graphics. Macromedia
ramped up programming ActionScript quit well.
Adobe bought them and I was very very happy in the beginning. Then as
I talked to other FLEX 1.0 purchasers I was wondering a few things.
Now with Scene7.com / I'm pretty concerned about a few things. About
the money I've spent (about $3,000), about the time I've taken,
thinking that this is a great opportunity for a new age in eCommerce.
But someone in the organization has a major growth on their minds and
that's not just in the marketplace but in their pocketbooks, and at
the cost of all the momentum achieved by thousands upon thousands of
developers.
Btw, There is no place here for what you, and I understand it's a joke
"class action suit" there's no grounds. None. But there is a
potential problem around the corner and all you 20-25 year olds should
really think about it hard.
It seems the safest place to stay after all is with the W3C and XHTML
and well chosen protocols.
I'm not so sure about Adobe anymore; but we'll find out in the coming
months.
The Webinar by the way is in September. It is on a Thursday, but I
was wrong about it being tommorrow. Hopefully the CEO who's
whitepaper e-mail bounces (surprise, of course it would), can explain
how he will not betray FLEX and Flash CS3 developers with a Bush-
Whacked "Free Markets for All of us (well those of us in the club)".
Adobe is clearly headed towards providing high-end eCommerce solutions
that were the hope of all FLEX and Dreamweaver developers, and it
appears to me they are headed into the Services industry to. That's
where the FTC comes in, and if it turns out like that, I certainly
won't let it pass without letting someone know. I certainly have no
plans for a law suit of any kind in my future, unless it's to protect
a family member or something.
But what Adobe is doing needs to be cleared up...those who want to be
led like a cow to the slaughter (of your invested time into a platform
let alone the money for the tools), that's their choice.
-r
On Aug 27, 2008, at 2:38 PM, Doug McCune wrote:
Well, as long as we've got public defenders like yourself who will
contact the Department of Justice, I feel safe. Let's do a class
action lawsuit for buzzword and photoshop express while we're at it.
[sorry, sometimes I just can't help poking threads that I know I
should just let die]
Doug
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Robert Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
Looks like my thoughts have been confirmed, by someone.
Selling development tools and having a developer community is one of
the best kept secrets in the "Evangelist" style of Marketing.
The first time a FLEX developer bids on a project and the client
tells them they are using Adobe Scene7, that's when the issues
begin, and once they begin, they will get worse.
Prior to the acquisition of Macromedia, Adobe was a fairly even
player with Photoshop, Illustrator and PDF, primarily and imaging
and document firm.
Now, if Scene7.com does what I think it will be doing, and as you
seem to have confirmed below, it is going to take the momentum of
the Flash Player, begun by FutureWave Technologies (an honorable
group), Macromedia (an honorable group), and take that into the
Developer Arena Capitalizing on the all the wide-spread knowledge
that Flash and more recently FLEX developers have provided for them.
"Shortage of work" is a relative term. Ask any developer who has
bid on eLance.com and you'll understand the dynamics of bidding
against others for contracts.
If it turns out that Adobe begins to take the momentum achieved by
it's predecessors, namely it's acquisitions (which is has a right
to), and it's developers (which, if Scene7.com turns out to be as
you describe and I believe it will), then it is an ETHICAL ISSUE
that will not go away, and I'm giving fair-warning to any developer
out there (and yes, I do have the experience I've said I do to the
gentleman out there that questioned that).
I've been through thousands of pages of an unamed companies
documents to find out how they really work, and how they really look
at Developers. Adobe appears to be on that same road, and the more
signs I see of it, the more I will support other efforts.
For those inclined to be offended easily, I'd ask not to shout
against me or anyone else giving an opinion, but For your own sakes,
keep an eye on ACTIONS not WORDS. You'd be surprised what larger
corporations, especially ones that we all know the name of [not
Adobe] that gained their momentum on the backs of the developer
community, only to turn against them with hidden DLL API's, hacks
against licensed technology to make it perform poorly under their
platform, etc. (again this is not Adobe as I just said).
However, when a Consumer Software company, which Adobe was, starts
changing Acrobat to have an SDK (that's their right) and but then
goes beyond that to provide a far better Plug-in, only made possible
by the light weight plug-in efforts of FutureWave, and for the past
few years gaining momentum on the development efforts and expensive
purchases of development tools ; when that line is blurred it will
ultimately turn out bad for the developer.
For the gentleman who said "shortage of jobs" again, that's not the
issue as I just explained in eLance.com / The issue is that people
will Buy and will Trust Adobe more than a developer or even a small
development firm when it comes to bidding online. Local efforts are
different.
If the below turns out to be true of FLEX vs. Scene7.com (a
potential guise of a Consumer mid-level Product Manager), then the
FLEX, and more especially the ActionScript component and development
community as a while since Macromedia's aquisition will have at that
point been betrayed and yes, at that point, or any sign of it (in
the form of Actions, not Promises, do not trust the promises of a
large Corp. unless you've tried them true), if there is that sign or
signs, then yes it's time to get on with it and get out and support
more honorable people like Apple and Steve Jobs.
At this point I wish Macromedia never sold to Adobe.com / This isn't
looking pretty for the FLEX community. I'll certainly keep my Lexis-
Nexis handy and press contacts (and in several years, if it turns
bad, the FTC and DOJ).
-r
On Aug 27, 2008, at 11:17 AM, Battershall, Jeff wrote:
At this point, Adobe is not likely to abandon Scene7 due to
developer concerns. The way I see it, Adobe has been taking on
consulting engagements for some time, just like IBM does, and I
think having an offering of best of breed off-the-shelf solutions
fits in well with that strategy. I don't think it interferes with
the prosperity of Adobe solution providers or individual
developers, in fact having such solutions available may make more
possible to deliver on projects by not having to reinvent
functionality. It is what it is and there's no shortage of work,
so let's get on with it.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 11:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [flexcoders] Whitepaper and Webinar -- Please read the
Scene7.com posts Objectively
There is no harm meant in my postings.
I'm posting so we are all aware of what may be going on with
Scene7.com and it's implications to the FLEX and Flash CS3
development community.
I'm a freelance developer, not with a large corporation.
The Whitepaper is available on www.Scene7.com and I highly
recommend posting any concerns and questions to the e-mail address
of the CEO in there.
I also recommend attending the Webinar on the subject tomorrow (I
believe it's Thursday).
-r
