On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 12:54:05 +0200, Arnt wrote in message <20110924125405.072bc...@nb6.lan>:
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 21:06:00 -0500, Curtis wrote in message > <CAHtsj_c=qrUGW4=F9PfEMoDGfgdC2yZVK77pp3gE3P=tbjr...@mail.gmail.com>: > > > Here's one for your guys. Do any nasal errors pop up on the console > > when things go bad? Are you able to manually fly the f-14b (non-uas > > version) around just fine? ..yup, even on the eeepc keyboard, one up tap elevator, full power, let it roll and wait out the rotation, 2 down taps on the elevator to keep the nose down to 15 to 30 degrees, gets it "safely" up at 1-2 fps. > > Once in maybe 20-50 flights I do see something go goofy with the > > f-14b stability augmentation's roll control. Maybe this same issue > > is popping up less rarely for some people? I haven't dug into how > > the SAS is implemented on the f-14b ... it's intricately woven I can > > tell ... maybe there's something lurking down in the guts of the > > f-14b SAS. ..or your settings. > > Curt. > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 8:35 PM, Arnt Karlsen <a...@c2i.net> wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 23:44:02 +0200, Citronnier wrote in message > > > <4e7cfda2.7060...@gmail.com>: > > > > > > > Le 23/09/2011 23:12, Curtis Olson a écrit : > > > > > Geoff and Arnt and anyone else who is interested. I just > > > > > updated the zip file overlay with a few changes. > > > > > > > > > > Geoff: you may be getting tired of being a bunny, but I played > > > > > around with the roll controller and limited max target roll > > > > > angle to +/-35 degrees. I also dialed down the gains a bit on > > > > > final approach which will hopefully slow down the wild swings. > > > > > More adjustment may be necessary, but I'd be interested in > > > > > hearing if any of this helps your situation. > > > > > > ..a wee bit, now takes off and makes it ~1000 feet up, then it > > > rolls to the right and makes it ~200 feet into the drink, and > > > repeats the stunt seated in the cockpit (rather than in the > > > camera), uncommanded on Reset button pushes. > > > > > > ..it's trying to orbit the carrier in the vertical plane? > > > > > > ..trying the operator click mode on targets like the merchantman > > > near the Nimitz, works, until the demo is airborne, then it picks > > > the Carrier target and tries a vertical orbit around it. > > > > > > ..refetching the merchantman with the operator mouse click mode, > > > dives the demo into the drink between the 2 vessels. > > > > > > ..debug idea for Curtis: try the Nimitz too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also set the default carrier speed to zero so if we get a > > > > > few people out there playing around with this, we should be > > > > > able to see each other via MP. That could be an additional > > > > > fun element. I was just out there dodging XIII who trailed me > > > > > around the pattern and let me live thankfully. :-) > > > > > > > > > > Here is the link with the zip file overlay download + > > > > > installation and operation instructions: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.flightgear.org/uas-demo/ > > > > > > > > > > MP Call Sign: Shrike :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Woot :-) so I missed the update, I just read this post after > > > > posting the previous one. And was wondering who was flying > > > > around there ! Model view ought to be interesting in case of > > > > one other tester just encounter problems. > > > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > > > > > Alexis > > > > > > > > > Maybe see a few of you out there? > > > > > > > > > > Curt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Citronnier - Alexis Bory > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Le 23/09/2011 16:47, Curtis Olson a écrit : > > > > > > Hi Geoff, > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm starting to run low on ideas here. I assume you > > > > > > don't have any crazy/severe turbulence turned on or > > > > > > your plots would be all > > > > > over the > > > > > > place. Are you running out of fuel and your engines > > > > > > dying? If you open the autopilot dialog (F11) you can > > > > > > see the target speed and if you have the hud turned on > > > > > > you can see the actual speed in any view. If you are > > > > > > circling with a target speed of 150 and your airspeed > > > > > > is less than than and you are decending, then > > > > > > definitely check your engine output. There is a fuel > > > > > > dialog box under the f-14b menu and you might double > > > > > > check that to see if you have any fuel in your > > > > > tanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > For what it's worth, I'm rock solid in circling and the > > > > > > only time I have ever stalled out of the sky or really > > > > > > got out of kilter is when I've had severe turbulence > > > > > > turned on. Moderate turbulence at all levels is actually > > > > > > pretty interesting because despite getting thrown all > > > > > > over the sky, I still hit the carrier deck pretty spot > > > > > > on > > > > > every time. > > > > > > > > > > > > Curt. > > > > > > > > > > > Still no tests yet but just a though, In normal use > > > > > (without the UAV script) I know that after TO (flaps down) > > > > > you have to rise the flaps in > > > > > before engaging the attitude autopilot mode. If you rise > > > > > the flaps after > > > > > engaging attitude autopilot mode, the a/c start to pitch > > > > > up consistently. This has to be documented or fixed. I'll try > > > > > to bring the > > > > > maintainer to his workstation ASAP. > > > > > > > > > > Alexis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Geoff McLane wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Curt, > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, removed my joystick, and entered a '5', but > > > > > > still crashed while just in 'circle' mode - no route > > > > > > entered ;=(( > > > > > > > > > > > > As usual Atlas provides a good 'view' as to > > > > > > what happened - added - > > > > > > ATLAS="--atlas=socket,out,<IP>,5500,udp" > > > > > > to output to Atlas running in a 2nd machine... > > > > > > > > > > > > See - > > > > > > http://geoffair.org/tmp/uas-01.jpg > > > > > > for a graph of the flight... > > > > > > > > > > > > The two blips in the graphs show the first stall, > > > > > > but it recovers and begins to climb back, and the > > > > > > 2nd the second stall, this time too low to recover, > > > > > > so into the drink ;=(( CRASH! > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a view of the 'crazy' flight track > > > > > > http://geoffair.org/tmp/uas-02.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > Obviously the pig-tail loops are the 'stalls'... > > > > > > remember with NO joystick attached and starting > > > > > > with centered controls (NumPad 5)... > > > > > > > > > > > > And if you want to load this track into Atlas, or > > > > > > further study speeds, etc, then this is the > > > > > > Atlas track data :- > > > > > > http://geoffair.org/tmp/uas-01.txt > > > > > > > > > > > > Then on the NEXT flight I tried :- > > > > > > IO="--generic=file,out,10,uas-02.csv,playback" > > > > > > > > > > > > Then I added a header line, to help analyze > > > > > > it in say an OpenOffice spreadsheet import - > > > > > > see - > > > > > > > > > > > > http://geoffair.org/tmp/uas-02.csv > > > > > > > > > > > > On this 2nd flight, this crash took longer, since > > > > > > it (randomly) turned left first, where as mentioned > > > > > > it holds more stable, but then eventually went into > > > > > > a right turn, stalled, recovered, stalled again, and > > > > > > CRASHED... > > > > > > > > > > > > And as you know well, downloading this file, and > > > > > > using say - > > > > > > > > > > > > $ ./fgfs --fg-root=/point/to/fgfs/data > > > > > > --timeofday=noon \ --aircraft=f-14b-uas > > > > > > --carrier=Vinson \ > > > > > > --generic=file,in,10,uas-02.csv,playback --fdm=external > > > > > > > > > > > > you too can enjoy this fateful flight ;=)) > > > > > > > > > > > > In 'chase' view, you can clearly see the right roll > > > > > > increase, the nose coming up, and the stall, > > > > > > recovery, then repeated, and BANG, into the water... > > > > > > > > > > > > I know it is difficult to work on, debug, fix > > > > > > something that obviously does not happen in your > > > > > > case... > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe if you do not enter any route, or something... > > > > > > > > > > > > And this is all with SG/FG git of 2011-09-14... > > > > > > > > > > > > Any other ideas? > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Geoff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 14:00 -0500, Curtis Olson > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Geoff McLane wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Curt, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A pleasure, and FUN ;=)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I know a low frame rate can play havoc > > > > > > > when you are trying to fine control an aircraft from > > > > > > > its attitude feedback, and I should have > > > > > > > mentioned my rate, but is always in the high 50-70 fps > > > > > > > range in this Ubuntu machine... so should NOT be a > > > > > > > factor... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, 50-70 should be perfect. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just did another few runs, and this time it > > > > > > > crashed just while circling... it was in a right bank, > > > > > > > which got too much and the nose came up, and it > > > > > > > stalled... I am mostly in the 'chase' view... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is really strange. I have seen nothing like this > > > > > > > except > > > > > when I > > > > > > > inadvertantly applied external control inputs through > > > > > > > a strange combination of linux virtual desktops and > > > > > > > flightgear capturing the hotkey to come back to the > > > > > > > FlightGear virtual desktop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So two thoughts here. If you have a joystick > > > > > > > connected, could > > > > > > you try > > > > > > > unplugging it to see if that helps? Could you also > > > > > > > press "5" > > > > > on the > > > > > > > numeric keypad to make sure all the flight control > > > > > > > inputs are centered. Because of the way the F-14b FCS > > > > > > > is wired together in combination with the yasim flight > > > > > > > surfaces, you can still input elevator and aileron and > > > > > > > trim and cause conflicts that you > > > > > might not > > > > > > > see in other simpler aircraft that use aileron and > > > > > > > elevator > > > > > > directly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The first time this happened at 2000 feet, it > > > > > > > caught itself - leveled a bit and bumped the > > > > > > > throttles, and began climbing back... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But a little later, 20-30 secs, it happened > > > > > > > again, and this time was still too low to recover, and > > > > > > > SPLASH... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had not previously let it fly in the > > > > > > > 'circle' mode for too long, but now note if I leave > > > > > > > it in circling mode, it will eventually end up in the > > > > > > > water... seldom lasts more than 5 or 10 minutes... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be deliberately holding its speed > > > > > > > down around 150 - I see air-brakes come up when > > > > > > > greater than this, and throttle back - and although > > > > > > > flaps (I think full flap?) are still applied, 150 must > > > > > > > be quite 'low' for this sleek bird... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Normal landing approach in the real aircraft I believe > > > > > > > is > > > > > about 120 > > > > > > > kts? I fly 135 kt approaches in the simulator. It > > > > > > > should be > > > > > > able to > > > > > > > hold 150 kts with the flaps down pretty easily. The > > > > > > > point of > > > > > > slowing > > > > > > > way down when circling is to keep the circle radius > > > > > > > small > > > > > enough so > > > > > > > you can see what you are looking at. If you fly the > > > > > > > circle at 600 kts, your radius will be 20 miles (just > > > > > > > guessing) :-) and you > > > > > > won't be > > > > > > > able to see anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I am not sure how many degrees each > > > > > > > marking on the hud bottom bank indicator represents, > > > > > > > and while it starts the banking in between the 1 and > > > > > > > 2 of the 'big' > > > > > > marks, > > > > > > > at the stall point it is beyond the 2nd big > > > > > > > mark, > > > > > > approaching, > > > > > > > even reaching the 3rd big mark, which is on > > > > > > > the horizontal - ie 90 degrees! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the moment of stall it loses 1200-1400 feet > > > > > > > in 1-3 seconds... while it can happen in a right or > > > > > > > left turn, it does seem to happen quicker in a right > > > > > > > turn... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I now understand the 'reset' is a full sim > > > > > > > reset, but that is not too helpful if you have set up > > > > > > > say a particular weather, wind or something that you > > > > > > > want to repeat... must get around to feeding that in, > > > > > > > in the command, so a reset puts it back (I hope)... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well complain to the developers if a "reset" resets > > > > > > > too agressively. :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you could describe a bit more where some of > > > > > > > this is decided/calculated I too could try tweaking > > > > > > > some values... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would probably bump the speed a little, and > > > > > > > really watch the bank angle... those stubby little > > > > > > > wings do not give much lift anyway, but the slender > > > > > > > body gives close to none ;=)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As mentioned, I too have more than a passing > > > > > > > interest in automated flight control... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Geoff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS: OT: I too searched a little for the > > > > > > > expression to be a 'bunny', but could not really find > > > > > > > anything ;=(( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure it comes from my Australian origin, > > > > > > > and has the meaning to take the rap, take the > > > > > > > medicine, sort of to be the guinea pig... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, I can understand that. Here we test cosmetics on > > > > > > > little > > > > > bunnies > > > > > > > (so I'm told) but I'm sure we have to shave all their > > > > > > > hair off > > > > > > first. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why poor little bunny rabbits feature I just > > > > > > > do not know ;=)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe from when Australia had a big war on > > > > > > > rabbits _MANY_ years ago, and put out millions > > > > > > > of traps for the bunnies, as well as other > > > > > > > methods, like poisons - myxomatosis... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So to be a bunny was to be trapped ;=(()) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe other Australian's have a better memory > > > > > > > than me, and can explain it better, but meantime I > > > > > > > will blame my parents, or the Australian educational > > > > > > > system, for giving me such a stupid expression ;=() > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On reading up on 'to be a Guinea Pig', another > > > > > > > very confusing expression - not really a 'pig' > > > > > > > and not from Guinea! - I found a reference that in > > > > > > > Johnston's Natural History, they go by the name > > > > > > > Spanish Coney. And 'coney' was the old name for a > > > > > > > rabbit, a bunny... Huh! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Peru Guinea Pig is a delicacy ... cui ... never had > > > > > > > it myself > > > > > > that > > > > > > > I'm aware of. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe the early immigrants to Australia > > > > > > > decided to mix it up even more! ;=)) Or got it > > > > > > > confused on the long boat ride half way around the > > > > > > > world... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well just to summarize, if your frame rates are solid > > > > > > > in the > > > > > 30-60+ > > > > > > > range, then the next thing I'm wondering about is a > > > > > > > joystick or > > > > > > other > > > > > > > means of extraneous control inputs that could be > > > > > > > confusing the > > > > > F-14b > > > > > > > AFCS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Curt. > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Curtis Olson: > > > > > > > http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ > > > > > <http://aem.umn.edu/%7Euav/> > > > > > > <http://aem.umn.edu/%7Euav/> > > > > > > > http://www.flightgear.org - > > > > > > > http://gallinazo.flightgear.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure > > > > > > is seriously valuable. > > > > > > Why? It contains a definitive record of application > > > > > > performance, security > > > > > > threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes > > > > > > this > > > > > data and > > > > > > makes > > > > > > sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. > > > > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > > > > > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > <mailto:Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> > > > > > > <mailto:Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > <mailto:Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>> > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Curtis Olson: > > > > > > http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ > > > > > <http://aem.umn.edu/%7Euav/> > > > > > > <http://aem.umn.edu/%7Euav/> > > > > > > http://www.flightgear.org - > > > > > > http://gallinazo.flightgear.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is > > > > > > seriously > > > > > valuable. > > > > > > Why? It contains a definitive record of application > > > > > > performance, > > > > > security > > > > > > threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes > > > > > > this data > > > > > and makes > > > > > > sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. > > > > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > > > > > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > <mailto:Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is > > > > > seriously valuable. > > > > > Why? It contains a definitive record of application > > > > > performance, security > > > > > threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this > > > > > data and makes > > > > > sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. > > > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > > > > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > <mailto:Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Curtis Olson: > > > > > http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ > > > > > <http://aem.umn.edu/%7Euav/> > > > > > http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is > > > > > seriously valuable. Why? It contains a definitive record of > > > > > application performance, security threats, fraudulent > > > > > activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of > > > > > it. IT sense. And common sense. > > > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > > > > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously > > > > valuable. Why? It contains a definitive record of application > > > > performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. > > > > Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And > > > > common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > > > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously > > > valuable. Why? It contains a definitive record of application > > > performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. > > > Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common > > > sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable. Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 _______________________________________________ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
