On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 23:44:02 +0200, Citronnier wrote in message <4e7cfda2.7060...@gmail.com>:
> Le 23/09/2011 23:12, Curtis Olson a écrit : > > Geoff and Arnt and anyone else who is interested. I just updated > > the zip file overlay with a few changes. > > > > Geoff: you may be getting tired of being a bunny, but I played > > around with the roll controller and limited max target roll angle > > to +/-35 degrees. I also dialed down the gains a bit on final > > approach which will hopefully slow down the wild swings. More > > adjustment may be necessary, but I'd be interested in hearing if > > any of this helps your situation. ..a wee bit, now takes off and makes it ~1000 feet up, then it rolls to the right and makes it ~200 feet into the drink, and repeats the stunt seated in the cockpit (rather than in the camera), uncommanded on Reset button pushes. ..it's trying to orbit the carrier in the vertical plane? ..trying the operator click mode on targets like the merchantman near the Nimitz, works, until the demo is airborne, then it picks the Carrier target and tries a vertical orbit around it. ..refetching the merchantman with the operator mouse click mode, dives the demo into the drink between the 2 vessels. ..debug idea for Curtis: try the Nimitz too. > > > > I also set the default carrier speed to zero so if we get a few > > people out there playing around with this, we should be able to see > > each other via MP. That could be an additional fun element. I was > > just out there dodging XIII who trailed me around the pattern and > > let me live thankfully. :-) > > > > Here is the link with the zip file overlay download + installation > > and operation instructions: > > > > http://www.flightgear.org/uas-demo/ > > > > MP Call Sign: Shrike :-) > > > > Woot :-) so I missed the update, I just read this post after posting > the previous one. And was wondering who was flying around there ! > Model view ought to be interesting in case of one other tester just > encounter problems. > > Greetings, > > Alexis > > > Maybe see a few of you out there? > > > > Curt. > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Citronnier - Alexis Bory wrote: > > > > Le 23/09/2011 16:47, Curtis Olson a écrit : > > > Hi Geoff, > > > > > > I'm starting to run low on ideas here. I assume you don't > > > have any crazy/severe turbulence turned on or your plots > > > would be all > > over the > > > place. Are you running out of fuel and your engines dying? > > > If you open the autopilot dialog (F11) you can see the target > > > speed and if you have the hud turned on you can see the > > > actual speed in any view. If you are circling with a target > > > speed of 150 and your airspeed is less than than and you are > > > decending, then definitely check your engine output. There > > > is a fuel dialog box under the f-14b menu and you might > > > double check that to see if you have any fuel in your > > tanks. > > > > > > For what it's worth, I'm rock solid in circling and the only > > > time I have ever stalled out of the sky or really got out of > > > kilter is when I've had severe turbulence turned on. > > > Moderate turbulence at all levels is actually pretty > > > interesting because despite getting thrown all over the sky, > > > I still hit the carrier deck pretty spot on > > every time. > > > > > > Curt. > > > > > Still no tests yet but just a though, In normal use (without > > the UAV script) I know that after TO (flaps down) you have to rise > > the flaps in > > before engaging the attitude autopilot mode. If you rise the > > flaps after > > engaging attitude autopilot mode, the a/c start to pitch up > > consistently. This has to be documented or fixed. I'll try to > > bring the > > maintainer to his workstation ASAP. > > > > Alexis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Geoff McLane wrote: > > > > > > Hi Curt, > > > > > > Ok, removed my joystick, and entered a '5', but > > > still crashed while just in 'circle' mode - no route > > > entered ;=(( > > > > > > As usual Atlas provides a good 'view' as to > > > what happened - added - > > > ATLAS="--atlas=socket,out,<IP>,5500,udp" > > > to output to Atlas running in a 2nd machine... > > > > > > See - > > > http://geoffair.org/tmp/uas-01.jpg > > > for a graph of the flight... > > > > > > The two blips in the graphs show the first stall, > > > but it recovers and begins to climb back, and the > > > 2nd the second stall, this time too low to recover, > > > so into the drink ;=(( CRASH! > > > > > > This is a view of the 'crazy' flight track > > > http://geoffair.org/tmp/uas-02.jpg > > > > > > Obviously the pig-tail loops are the 'stalls'... > > > remember with NO joystick attached and starting > > > with centered controls (NumPad 5)... > > > > > > And if you want to load this track into Atlas, or > > > further study speeds, etc, then this is the > > > Atlas track data :- > > > http://geoffair.org/tmp/uas-01.txt > > > > > > Then on the NEXT flight I tried :- > > > IO="--generic=file,out,10,uas-02.csv,playback" > > > > > > Then I added a header line, to help analyze > > > it in say an OpenOffice spreadsheet import - > > > see - > > > > > > http://geoffair.org/tmp/uas-02.csv > > > > > > On this 2nd flight, this crash took longer, since > > > it (randomly) turned left first, where as mentioned > > > it holds more stable, but then eventually went into a > > > right turn, stalled, recovered, stalled again, and > > > CRASHED... > > > > > > And as you know well, downloading this file, and > > > using say - > > > > > > $ ./fgfs --fg-root=/point/to/fgfs/data --timeofday=noon \ > > > --aircraft=f-14b-uas --carrier=Vinson \ > > > --generic=file,in,10,uas-02.csv,playback --fdm=external > > > > > > you too can enjoy this fateful flight ;=)) > > > > > > In 'chase' view, you can clearly see the right roll > > > increase, the nose coming up, and the stall, recovery, > > > then repeated, and BANG, into the water... > > > > > > I know it is difficult to work on, debug, fix > > > something that obviously does not happen in your > > > case... > > > > > > Maybe if you do not enter any route, or something... > > > > > > And this is all with SG/FG git of 2011-09-14... > > > > > > Any other ideas? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Geoff. > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 14:00 -0500, Curtis Olson wrote: > > > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Geoff McLane wrote: > > > > Hi Curt, > > > > > > > > A pleasure, and FUN ;=)) > > > > > > > > Yes, I know a low frame rate can play havoc when > > > > you are trying to fine control an aircraft from > > > > its attitude feedback, and I should have mentioned > > > > my rate, but is always in the high 50-70 fps range in this > > > > Ubuntu machine... so should NOT be a factor... > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, 50-70 should be perfect. > > > > > > > > I just did another few runs, and this time it > > > > crashed just while circling... it was in a right bank, which > > > > got too much and the nose came up, and it stalled... > > > > I am mostly in the 'chase' view... > > > > > > > > > > > > This is really strange. I have seen nothing like this > > > > except > > when I > > > > inadvertantly applied external control inputs through a > > > > strange combination of linux virtual desktops and > > > > flightgear capturing the hotkey to come back to the > > > > FlightGear virtual desktop. > > > > > > > > > > > > So two thoughts here. If you have a joystick connected, > > > > could > > > you try > > > > unplugging it to see if that helps? Could you also press > > > > "5" > > on the > > > > numeric keypad to make sure all the flight control inputs > > > > are centered. Because of the way the F-14b FCS is wired > > > > together in combination with the yasim flight surfaces, you > > > > can still input elevator and aileron and trim and cause > > > > conflicts that you > > might not > > > > see in other simpler aircraft that use aileron and elevator > > > directly. > > > > > > > > > > > > The first time this happened at 2000 feet, it caught > > > > itself - leveled a bit and bumped the throttles, and > > > > began climbing back... > > > > > > > > But a little later, 20-30 secs, it happened again, > > > > and this time was still too low to recover, and SPLASH... > > > > > > > > I had not previously let it fly in the 'circle' mode > > > > for too long, but now note if I leave it in circling > > > > mode, it will eventually end up in the water... > > > > seldom lasts more than 5 or 10 minutes... > > > > > > > > You seem to be deliberately holding its speed down > > > > around 150 - I see air-brakes come up when greater > > > > than this, and throttle back - and although flaps > > > > (I think full flap?) are still applied, 150 must be quite > > > > 'low' for this sleek bird... > > > > > > > > > > > > Normal landing approach in the real aircraft I believe is > > about 120 > > > > kts? I fly 135 kt approaches in the simulator. It should > > > > be > > > able to > > > > hold 150 kts with the flaps down pretty easily. The point > > > > of > > > slowing > > > > way down when circling is to keep the circle radius small > > enough so > > > > you can see what you are looking at. If you fly the circle > > > > at 600 kts, your radius will be 20 miles (just > > > > guessing) :-) and you > > > won't be > > > > able to see anything. > > > > > > > > And I am not sure how many degrees each marking on > > > > the hud bottom bank indicator represents, and while > > > > it starts the banking in between the 1 and 2 of the 'big' > > > marks, > > > > at the stall point it is beyond the 2nd big mark, > > > approaching, > > > > even reaching the 3rd big mark, which is on the > > > > horizontal - ie 90 degrees! > > > > > > > > At the moment of stall it loses 1200-1400 feet in > > > > 1-3 seconds... while it can happen in a right or left turn, > > > > it does seem to happen quicker in a right turn... > > > > > > > > I now understand the 'reset' is a full sim reset, > > > > but that is not too helpful if you have set up say a > > > > particular weather, wind or something that you want > > > > to repeat... must get around to feeding that in, in > > > > the command, so a reset puts it back (I hope)... > > > > > > > > > > > > Well complain to the developers if a "reset" resets too > > > > agressively. :-) > > > > > > > > If you could describe a bit more where some of this > > > > is decided/calculated I too could try tweaking some > > > > values... > > > > > > > > I would probably bump the speed a little, and really > > > > watch the bank angle... those stubby little wings do > > > > not give much lift anyway, but the slender body > > > > gives close to none ;=)) > > > > > > > > As mentioned, I too have more than a passing > > > > interest in automated flight control... > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Geoff. > > > > > > > > PS: OT: I too searched a little for the expression > > > > to be a 'bunny', but could not really find anything ;=(( > > > > > > > > I am sure it comes from my Australian origin, and > > > > has the meaning to take the rap, take the medicine, > > > > sort of to be the guinea pig... > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, I can understand that. Here we test cosmetics on little > > bunnies > > > > (so I'm told) but I'm sure we have to shave all their hair > > > > off > > > first. > > > > > > > > Why poor little bunny rabbits feature I just do > > > > not know ;=)) > > > > > > > > Maybe from when Australia had a big war on > > > > rabbits _MANY_ years ago, and put out millions > > > > of traps for the bunnies, as well as other methods, > > > > like poisons - myxomatosis... > > > > > > > > So to be a bunny was to be trapped ;=(()) > > > > > > > > Maybe other Australian's have a better memory than > > > > me, and can explain it better, but meantime I will blame > > > > my parents, or the Australian educational system, > > > > for giving me such a stupid expression ;=() > > > > > > > > On reading up on 'to be a Guinea Pig', another > > > > very confusing expression - not really a 'pig' and > > > > not from Guinea! - I found a reference that in Johnston's > > > > Natural History, they go by the name Spanish Coney. > > > > And 'coney' was the old name for a rabbit, a bunny... Huh! > > > > > > > > > > > > In Peru Guinea Pig is a delicacy ... cui ... never had it > > > > myself > > > that > > > > I'm aware of. > > > > > > > > Maybe the early immigrants to Australia decided to > > > > mix it up even more! ;=)) Or got it confused on the long > > > > boat ride half way around the world... > > > > > > > > > > > > Well just to summarize, if your frame rates are solid in the > > 30-60+ > > > > range, then the next thing I'm wondering about is a > > > > joystick or > > > other > > > > means of extraneous control inputs that could be confusing > > > > the > > F-14b > > > > AFCS. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > Curt. > > > > -- > > > > Curtis Olson: > > > > http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ > > <http://aem.umn.edu/%7Euav/> > > > <http://aem.umn.edu/%7Euav/> > > > > http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is > > > seriously valuable. > > > Why? It contains a definitive record of application > > > performance, security > > > threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this > > data and > > > makes > > > sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > <mailto:Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> > > > <mailto:Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > <mailto:Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Curtis Olson: > > > http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ > > <http://aem.umn.edu/%7Euav/> > > > <http://aem.umn.edu/%7Euav/> > > > http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is > > > seriously > > valuable. > > > Why? It contains a definitive record of application > > > performance, > > security > > > threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data > > and makes > > > sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > <mailto:Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously > > valuable. > > Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, > > security > > threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data > > and makes > > sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 > > _______________________________________________ > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > <mailto:Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Curtis Olson: > > http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ > > <http://aem.umn.edu/%7Euav/> > > http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously > > valuable. Why? It contains a definitive record of application > > performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. > > Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common > > sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously > valuable. Why? It contains a definitive record of application > performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk > takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 > _______________________________________________ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable. Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2 _______________________________________________ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
