Geoff and Arnt and anyone else who is interested. I just updated the zip
file overlay with a few changes.
Geoff: you may be getting tired of being a bunny, but I played around with
the roll controller and limited max target roll angle to +/-35 degrees. I
also dialed down the gains a bit on final approach which will hopefully slow
down the wild swings. More adjustment may be necessary, but I'd be
interested in hearing if any of this helps your situation.
I also set the default carrier speed to zero so if we get a few people out
there playing around with this, we should be able to see each other via MP.
That could be an additional fun element. I was just out there dodging XIII
who trailed me around the pattern and let me live thankfully. :-)
Here is the link with the zip file overlay download + installation and
operation instructions:
http://www.flightgear.org/uas-demo/
MP Call Sign: Shrike :-)
Maybe see a few of you out there?
Curt.
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Citronnier - Alexis Bory wrote:
> Le 23/09/2011 16:47, Curtis Olson a écrit :
> > Hi Geoff,
> >
> > I'm starting to run low on ideas here. I assume you don't have any
> > crazy/severe turbulence turned on or your plots would be all over the
> > place. Are you running out of fuel and your engines dying? If you
> > open the autopilot dialog (F11) you can see the target speed and if
> > you have the hud turned on you can see the actual speed in any view.
> > If you are circling with a target speed of 150 and your airspeed is
> > less than than and you are decending, then definitely check your
> > engine output. There is a fuel dialog box under the f-14b menu and
> > you might double check that to see if you have any fuel in your tanks.
> >
> > For what it's worth, I'm rock solid in circling and the only time I
> > have ever stalled out of the sky or really got out of kilter is when
> > I've had severe turbulence turned on. Moderate turbulence at all
> > levels is actually pretty interesting because despite getting thrown
> > all over the sky, I still hit the carrier deck pretty spot on every time.
> >
> > Curt.
> >
> Still no tests yet but just a though, In normal use (without the UAV
> script) I know that after TO (flaps down) you have to rise the flaps in
> before engaging the attitude autopilot mode. If you rise the flaps after
> engaging attitude autopilot mode, the a/c start to pitch up
> consistently. This has to be documented or fixed. I'll try to bring the
> maintainer to his workstation ASAP.
>
> Alexis
>
>
>
>
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Geoff McLane wrote:
> >
> > Hi Curt,
> >
> > Ok, removed my joystick, and entered a '5', but
> > still crashed while just in 'circle' mode - no route
> > entered ;=((
> >
> > As usual Atlas provides a good 'view' as to
> > what happened - added -
> > ATLAS="--atlas=socket,out,<IP>,5500,udp"
> > to output to Atlas running in a 2nd machine...
> >
> > See -
> > http://geoffair.org/tmp/uas-01.jpg
> > for a graph of the flight...
> >
> > The two blips in the graphs show the first stall,
> > but it recovers and begins to climb back, and the
> > 2nd the second stall, this time too low to recover,
> > so into the drink ;=(( CRASH!
> >
> > This is a view of the 'crazy' flight track
> > http://geoffair.org/tmp/uas-02.jpg
> >
> > Obviously the pig-tail loops are the 'stalls'...
> > remember with NO joystick attached and starting
> > with centered controls (NumPad 5)...
> >
> > And if you want to load this track into Atlas, or
> > further study speeds, etc, then this is the
> > Atlas track data :-
> > http://geoffair.org/tmp/uas-01.txt
> >
> > Then on the NEXT flight I tried :-
> > IO="--generic=file,out,10,uas-02.csv,playback"
> >
> > Then I added a header line, to help analyze
> > it in say an OpenOffice spreadsheet import -
> > see -
> >
> > http://geoffair.org/tmp/uas-02.csv
> >
> > On this 2nd flight, this crash took longer, since
> > it (randomly) turned left first, where as mentioned
> > it holds more stable, but then eventually went into a
> > right turn, stalled, recovered, stalled again, and
> > CRASHED...
> >
> > And as you know well, downloading this file, and
> > using say -
> >
> > $ ./fgfs --fg-root=/point/to/fgfs/data --timeofday=noon \
> > --aircraft=f-14b-uas --carrier=Vinson \
> > --generic=file,in,10,uas-02.csv,playback --fdm=external
> >
> > you too can enjoy this fateful flight ;=))
> >
> > In 'chase' view, you can clearly see the right roll
> > increase, the nose coming up, and the stall, recovery,
> > then repeated, and BANG, into the water...
> >
> > I know it is difficult to work on, debug, fix
> > something that obviously does not happen in your
> > case...
> >
> > Maybe if you do not enter any route, or something...
> >
> > And this is all with SG/FG git of 2011-09-14...
> >
> > Any other ideas?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Geoff.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 14:00 -0500, Curtis Olson wrote:
> > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Geoff McLane wrote:
> > > Hi Curt,
> > >
> > > A pleasure, and FUN ;=))
> > >
> > > Yes, I know a low frame rate can play havoc when
> > > you are trying to fine control an aircraft from
> > > its attitude feedback, and I should have mentioned my
> > > rate, but is always in the high 50-70 fps range in this
> > > Ubuntu machine... so should NOT be a factor...
> > >
> > >
> > > Ok, 50-70 should be perfect.
> > >
> > > I just did another few runs, and this time it crashed
> > > just while circling... it was in a right bank, which
> > > got too much and the nose came up, and it stalled...
> > > I am mostly in the 'chase' view...
> > >
> > >
> > > This is really strange. I have seen nothing like this except when
> I
> > > inadvertantly applied external control inputs through a strange
> > > combination of linux virtual desktops and flightgear capturing the
> > > hotkey to come back to the FlightGear virtual desktop.
> > >
> > >
> > > So two thoughts here. If you have a joystick connected, could
> > you try
> > > unplugging it to see if that helps? Could you also press "5" on
> the
> > > numeric keypad to make sure all the flight control inputs are
> > > centered. Because of the way the F-14b FCS is wired together in
> > > combination with the yasim flight surfaces, you can still input
> > > elevator and aileron and trim and cause conflicts that you might
> not
> > > see in other simpler aircraft that use aileron and elevator
> > directly.
> > >
> > >
> > > The first time this happened at 2000 feet, it caught
> > > itself - leveled a bit and bumped the throttles, and
> > > began climbing back...
> > >
> > > But a little later, 20-30 secs, it happened again, and
> > > this time was still too low to recover, and SPLASH...
> > >
> > > I had not previously let it fly in the 'circle' mode
> > > for too long, but now note if I leave it in circling
> > > mode, it will eventually end up in the water... seldom
> > > lasts more than 5 or 10 minutes...
> > >
> > > You seem to be deliberately holding its speed down
> > > around 150 - I see air-brakes come up when greater
> > > than this, and throttle back - and although flaps (I think
> > > full flap?) are still applied, 150 must be quite 'low'
> > > for this sleek bird...
> > >
> > >
> > > Normal landing approach in the real aircraft I believe is about 120
> > > kts? I fly 135 kt approaches in the simulator. It should be
> > able to
> > > hold 150 kts with the flaps down pretty easily. The point of
> > slowing
> > > way down when circling is to keep the circle radius small enough so
> > > you can see what you are looking at. If you fly the circle at 600
> > > kts, your radius will be 20 miles (just guessing) :-) and you
> > won't be
> > > able to see anything.
> > >
> > > And I am not sure how many degrees each marking on
> > > the hud bottom bank indicator represents, and while it
> > > starts the banking in between the 1 and 2 of the 'big'
> > marks,
> > > at the stall point it is beyond the 2nd big mark,
> > approaching,
> > > even reaching the 3rd big mark, which is on the
> > > horizontal - ie 90 degrees!
> > >
> > > At the moment of stall it loses 1200-1400 feet in 1-3
> > > seconds... while it can happen in a right or left turn,
> > > it does seem to happen quicker in a right turn...
> > >
> > > I now understand the 'reset' is a full sim reset,
> > > but that is not too helpful if you have set up say a
> > > particular weather, wind or something that you want to
> > > repeat... must get around to feeding that in, in
> > > the command, so a reset puts it back (I hope)...
> > >
> > >
> > > Well complain to the developers if a "reset" resets too
> > > agressively. :-)
> > >
> > > If you could describe a bit more where some of this
> > > is decided/calculated I too could try tweaking some
> > > values...
> > >
> > > I would probably bump the speed a little, and really
> > > watch the bank angle... those stubby little wings do
> > > not give much lift anyway, but the slender body gives
> > > close to none ;=))
> > >
> > > As mentioned, I too have more than a passing interest
> > > in automated flight control...
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Geoff.
> > >
> > > PS: OT: I too searched a little for the expression to be
> > > a 'bunny', but could not really find anything ;=((
> > >
> > > I am sure it comes from my Australian origin, and
> > > has the meaning to take the rap, take the medicine,
> > > sort of to be the guinea pig...
> > >
> > >
> > > Ok, I can understand that. Here we test cosmetics on little
> bunnies
> > > (so I'm told) but I'm sure we have to shave all their hair off
> > first.
> > >
> > > Why poor little bunny rabbits feature I just do
> > > not know ;=))
> > >
> > > Maybe from when Australia had a big war on
> > > rabbits _MANY_ years ago, and put out millions
> > > of traps for the bunnies, as well as other methods,
> > > like poisons - myxomatosis...
> > >
> > > So to be a bunny was to be trapped ;=(())
> > >
> > > Maybe other Australian's have a better memory than me,
> > > and can explain it better, but meantime I will blame
> > > my parents, or the Australian educational system, for
> > > giving me such a stupid expression ;=()
> > >
> > > On reading up on 'to be a Guinea Pig', another
> > > very confusing expression - not really a 'pig' and not
> > > from Guinea! - I found a reference that in Johnston's
> > > Natural History, they go by the name Spanish Coney. And
> > > 'coney' was the old name for a rabbit, a bunny... Huh!
> > >
> > >
> > > In Peru Guinea Pig is a delicacy ... cui ... never had it myself
> > that
> > > I'm aware of.
> > >
> > > Maybe the early immigrants to Australia decided to mix
> > > it up even more! ;=)) Or got it confused on the long
> > > boat ride half way around the world...
> > >
> > >
> > > Well just to summarize, if your frame rates are solid in the 30-60+
> > > range, then the next thing I'm wondering about is a joystick or
> > other
> > > means of extraneous control inputs that could be confusing the
> F-14b
> > > AFCS.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
> > > Curt.
> > > --
> > > Curtis Olson:
> > > http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/
> > <http://aem.umn.edu/%7Euav/>
> > > http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously
> > valuable.
> > Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance,
> > security
> > threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and
> > makes
> > sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2
> > _______________________________________________
> > Flightgear-devel mailing list
> > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > <mailto:Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Curtis Olson:
> > http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/
> > <http://aem.umn.edu/%7Euav/>
> > http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously
> valuable.
> > Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security
> > threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes
> > sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Flightgear-devel mailing list
> > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable.
> Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security
> threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes
> sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2
> _______________________________________________
> Flightgear-devel mailing list
> Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
>
--
Curtis Olson:
http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/
http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable.
Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security
threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes
sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2
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