On Aug 3, 2018, at 9:04 AM, Pietro Cerutti <g...@gahr.ch> wrote:
> On Aug 03 2018, 14:13 UTC, Warren Young <war...@etr-usa.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 2, 2018, at 2:57 AM, Pietro Cerutti <g...@gahr.ch> wrote:
>>> The fundamental difference between email and web content, is that emails 
>>> are delivered to me
>> Only if you run your own SMTP server.
>> The vast majority of mail users *do* go out and specifically pull emails, 
>> either via IMAP or by visiting a web mail interface of some kind.
> Don't take my words so strictly. Email are delivered to me, as in, to my 
> email client, be it a standalone executable or a web email interface.

Then in that same spirit, Fossil forums traffic is also delivered to you, 
either by

a) visiting the central Fossil instance; or

b) visiting a Fossil instance that’s kept sync’d with that central instance; or

c) subscribing to the Fossil repo’s RSS feed; or

d) signing up for email notifications, which according to drh will soon contain 
the whole message content, at least optionally.

>>> and once they are, they are mine.
>> If you want a copy of all of the Fossil Forum traffic, you can just sync the 
>> forum repo.  If you do it on the same schedule your mail client polls its 
>> IMAP server or whatever, then you have the data just as quickly.
> The important point is of my sentence above is that *all* of my email is 
> delivered to that single place where I can organize it.

Do you subscribe to no other discussion forum than mailing lists?  Your 
information inputs are not already fragmented?  I’ve had at least two unrelated 
forum technologies to monitor at any given time since the late 1980s.

Fossil/SQLite isn’t the first mover in this slow exodus from email, not by a 
long shot.

Email was designed for a more civilized time on the Internet, when you could 
depend on things like ARPANet ToS agreements and local administration to solve 

The current attempts to fix the email system’s problems are in part 
accelerating the exodus by making email software harder and harder to develop.

One of my biggest arguments against this Fossil Forums feature — which has been 
discussed for years now — was all the work it’s going to end up taking to 
support enough of the various email-related protocol standards to reach a 
suitably large fraction of the end users.  But, drh seems to feel it’s worth 
taking on, so I’m now going to support his efforts.

> I can easily follow tens of mailing lists, because of this centrality of the 
> delivered information.  Do you think your workflow is applicable to anybody 
> interested in following the discussions happening in more than 3 or 4 Fossil 
> forums?

Create a bookmark folder in your browser of choice for all of the web forums 
you want to visit periodically, put it on the browser’s bookmarks bar, and then 
on the same schedule you currently check your email, hit whatever 
keystroke/mouse gesture it takes to open that folder’s bookmarks all at once.

This is functionally little different than having an email client configured to 
sort mailing list traffic into separate local folders.

> While I don't doubt that a forum is a nice feature per se, I just think 
> moving Fossil mailing lists to a forum is going to make drh's life easier by 
> avoiding email spam at the cost of making anyone else's harder by 
> decentralizing where one goes and reads his daily batch of news and by 
> dismissing a well established way of interacting online.

Since it’s drh doing the work, I’d say his needs and wishes matter most.  FOSS 
is a do-ocracy: he who does the work makes the rules.

> Change is hard.

Yup, but I think the time to argue against this particular change is over.  The 
arguments were held over the past 2 or so years, both here and on the SQLite 
mailing list.

I’ve been on both sides of it, but now that it’s over, I don’t see any point in 
continuing the angst.  It is time to get through the new pains: development, 
debugging, and deployment!
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