On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Matt Dillon wrote:

>    Sheesh.  Everyone is so negative!  Well, I'm going to be too.
>    I think compared to some of the other things that have been thrown into
>    -current, the KSE stuff will be the LEAST disruptive.  Don't go bashing
>    Julian for coming up with a reasoned approach to adding them, discussing
>    the concept at many meetings (including at USENIX), and doing all the 
>    hard work to get it done.  He's done a hellof a lot more discussion and
>    worked with people a lot more any other feature that has been thrown into
>    -current.  He doesn't deserve these kind of responses, not after all the
>    work that's been done.  He's been talking about this for 2 years.  TWO
>    years!

With all due respect, I was not attempting to bash Julian.  I was raising
two classes of concerns that seemed to merit further discussion: (1) 
technical concerns relating to SMPng, and (2) concerns about the release
schedule for 5.0-RELEASE.  Neither of these reflects on Julian's work,
rather, the environment in which the work is being done, and external
constraints on the work that must be considered.  Julian has responded
with a detailed response addressing these concerns.  I think it might be
more constructive to consider this discussion in those terms, and avoid
concepts like "bash".  We know we need to make an informed decision here,
which means we need to consider all the options, which may mean discussing
the controversial ones. 

I'm not fundamentally opposed to KSE: I would like to see it in the system
as much as you, and am quite aware of the potential benefits.  I just want
to make sure we don't go three years without a stable release to get
there.  If the answer to the questions is either fine, or addressible,
then we're set.  John has expressed a number of concerns with regards to
SMPng, and I take those concerns seriously.  I'm still reading Julian's
response, and will no doubt respond to that later if I have any further
questions :-).

Robert N M Watson             FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project
[EMAIL PROTECTED]      NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services

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