<URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=39845 >

On 11/9/07, William Allen Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I also examined the 467+ "->owner" [and 10 tile_get_owner] references in
> 70 files.  [Why, oh why, do folks not use the accessor functions?]  And
> fixed them!

Not using accessor functions is not a bug, it is a feature. I would
rather get rid of the pointless accessors than make them mandatory.
But why are we discussion that in this thread?

> with deterministic borders, the algorithm can be run on loading games, and not
> be dependent on saving large tables.

The size of the tile owner table in the savegame is not a problem.

> > Another important constraint is that the border code should never take
> > a tile from one player and give it to another. Once a tile is taken,
> > it is *not* reassigned automatically by the borders code.
> Of course, this is one of the things I've already said I disagreed.  One
> of the excellent features of civ3 (for those of us who think this is more
> than a shoot-em-up) is the cultural expansion of temple, library, etc.
> Peaceful conversion!

So the reason you want to change the current borders rules is because
you want to turn this game into civ3? I think that is a really bad

> > ... You can also
> > never take ownership of land underneath the feet of non-allied units.
> Seems reasonable.  A novel way of preventing border expansion, until the
> units move....  Saw that in the code.

This is of course not compatible with civ3-like cultural borders.

> > This removes a lot of complications that tie in with the diplomacy and
> > unit rules. For example, what happens if you are in a peace treaty,
> > and suddenly the borders shift underneath your carefully built
> > defensive line of units?
> >
> That's a feature!  In civ3, you are sent a message, and allowed a turn to
> move without an implied declaration of war.

Then you run into another constraint that the new borders/diplomacy
code is based on: Never assume that the user reads messages.

The way that messages are implemented in Freeciv, and perhaps must be
implemented in order to have a semblance of real-time multiplayer, you
cannot make such an assumption, because you cannot throw a modal
click-me-to-remove dialog at the player with the message.

I think that in order to do what you want to accomplish with the
borders code, you also need to change how diplomacy works, and how
messaging works. If you intend to make carbon copies from civ3 in
these areas too, I think you will be removing most of what is original
about Freeciv's rules. And I think that would be really sad.

  - Per

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