Hi Chris, thinking it over, I still see two points against packaging Java:
1. Security is one side, bugs are another, you still need to repackage if a Java bug impacts FreeMind. 2. Back to security: especially given the fact that we've now got a scripting engine, FreeMind is also a security issue entry (think about Word documents with macros) and as such, we need to be careful. This said, it's not a strong opposition, and as long as I don't need to package or support such a thing on Linux, you are free to do it :-) And again, I don't think any license issue speaks against it. Java 7 being under GPL, it's another story, theoretically, we would need as well to offer all the sources, but it's the same issue for all GPL libraries we already use. Cheers, Eric Christian Foltin (GMX) said: > Hi, > > ad 2: well, with an embedded java, this jvm is only used for FreeMind. > Thus, the need for security updates is not so big, is it? > > And moreover, I'm seeing into the future, when Jre7.0 gets open source. > Then, there would be no problem at all. > > Well, let's see. > > Chris > > Eric Lavarde schrieb: >> Hi, >> >> I'm not really happy either with the idea to bundle FreeMind with Java: >> >> 1. not because of the licensing reasons, my understanding was always >> that GPL is about linking and not bundling: >> >> "In addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Program >> with the Program (or with a work based on the Program) on a volume of >> a storage or distribution medium does not bring the other work under >> the scope of this License." >> >> 2. but because we carry the responsibility in terms of security updates. >> Sun brings rather often security updates and we would have to generate a >> new release each time. >> >> I would rather see an installer checking for the existence of Java (with >> a correct version), and warn the user if it's missing, opening on >> request a browser with the java download URL. >> >> Eric >> >> Dan Polansky wrote: >> >>> Dear Chris, >>> >>> as promised, I have now posted the zip with updated Windows launchers, >>> one taking Java from "jre/bin/javaw.exe", into the following patch: >>> >>> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1361629&group_id=7118&atid=307118 >>> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1361629&group_id=7118&atid=307118> >>> >>> I have created a documentation page about the Windows launcher: >>> >>> http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Windows_launcher >>> >>> >>> As regards licensing: In an email that you have sent to me and that I >>> am >>> quoting below, you have referred me to two open source projects that >>> bundle Java into their installers. I have added them into the wiki: >>> >>> http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Licensing >>> >>> However, the first project does not have a pure GPL; they have modified >>> it to make it possible to link with non-free code. >>> >>> The second project does not state their license on their web page; that >>> they have GPL follows from their entry in their SourceForge project >>> page. There is no evidence that the other project knows what they are >>> doing. >>> >>> I see no evidence that bundling FreeMind, licensed under pure GPL V2+, >>> with Java is legally correct. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Dan >>> >>> >>> Chris wrote: >>> >>> Hi Dan, >>> >>> you requested to find open source with java included. Here are two >>> of them: >>> http://www.mondobeyondo.com/projects/stopmojo/ >>> http://tiffanys.sourceforge.net/ >>> >>> Both on sourceforge. >>> >>> Do you still remember to create the different exe for me? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Chris >>> -- >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 8:43 PM, Dan Polansky <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >>> >>> Dear Chris, >>> >>> okay; I will create the exe in any case, regardless of the opened >>> licensing issue. This I will do no sooner than on the coming >>> weekend. >>> >>> But as regards licensing, IMHO we should proceed in a risk-averse >>> way, and consider such a bundling a license violation, unless >>> clearly demonstrated otherwise. My concern is not that we violate >>> Sun's license; my concern is that we violate FreeMind's GNU GPL. >>> >>> I prefer hard facts to speculation. And I prefer to rely on the >>> thought and experience of a multitude of other people, those who >>> are >>> experienced or if possible expert, if available. Do you know of any >>> other open source software licensed under GNU GPL that contains >>> Java >>> bundled? >>> >>> I understand that FreeMind needs Java. FreeMind also needs an >>> operating system, some of which are proprietary. The key point is >>> *bundling*, not *need*, from what I understand. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Dan >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 18, 2008 8:25 PM, Christian Foltin (GMX) >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Dan, >>> >>> beside the licensing, do you still create the .exe for me? The >>> packaging needs some time to be created. >>> Moreover, remember, that every user of FreeMind needs Java to >>> execute FreeMind. >>> And it is only the question, if we are allowed to package and >>> distribute the java with our proprietary program. >>> We can' t claim, that the result is GPL (at least not for java >>> 5+6, java7 is gpl, but not available AFAIK). >>> >>> Perhaps, consider >>> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-java-faq/ >>> >>> Best regards, Chris >>> >>> Dan Polansky schrieb: >>> >>>> Dear Chris, >>>> >>>> I think it should be possible for me to make it tomorrow to >>>> produce a version of FreeMind.exe that takes the Java runtime >>>> from a specific directory. >>>> >>>> But what I see as an issue is the licensing of Java runtime. >>>> Though I have already devoted some attention to copyright >>>> issues, I am still a non-expert. FreeMind is licensed under >>>> GNU GPL; bundling with it something that has not an open >>>> source license seems highly risky of copyright violation. >>>> >>>> Unless we have a clear evidence that there are no licensing >>>> issues, we should avoid bundling with FreeMind anything >>>> without a license compatible with GNU GPL. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 16, 2008 10:41 PM, Christian Foltin (GMX) >>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Dan, >>>> >>>> this will cost you at least a couple of beer ;-) >>>> >>>> Dan, I want to publish an installer version including the >>>> java runtime: >>>> FreeMind-0-8-1-max-Java-included, too. What do you think? >>>> From the license of the runtime, it should be possible >>>> (see below). >>>> >>>> >>>> I would need your help in creating a freemind.exe that >>>> takes a java.exe >>>> from a subdirectory jre/bin/java.exe. >>>> Can you supply such an exe, soon? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ======================================================================= >>>> Redistribution of the J2SE Runtime Environment >>>> >>>> ======================================================================= >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> NOTE - The license for this software does not allow >>>> the >>>> redistribution of beta and other pre-release versions. >>>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Subject to the terms and conditions of the Software >>>> License >>>> Agreement and the obligations, restrictions, and >>>> exceptions set >>>> forth below, You may reproduce and distribute the Software >>>> (and >>>> also portions of Software identified below as >>>> Redistributable), >>>> provided that: >>>> >>>> (a) you distribute the Software complete and unmodified >>>> and only >>>> bundled as part of Your applets and applications >>>> ("Programs"), >>>> >>>> (b) your Programs add significant and primary >>>> functionality to the >>>> Software, >>>> >>>> (c) your Programs are only intended to run on Java-enabled >>>> general >>>> purpose desktop computers and servers, >>>> >>>> (d) you distribute Software for the sole purpose of >>>> running your >>>> Programs, >>>> >>>> (e) you do not distribute additional software intended to >>>> replace >>>> any component(s) of the Software, >>>> >>>> (f) you do not remove or alter any proprietary legends or >>>> notices >>>> contained in or on the Software, >>>> >>>> (g) you only distribute the Software subject to a license >>>> agreement >>>> that protects Sun's interests consistent with the terms >>>> contained in this Agreement, and >>>> >>>> (h) you agree to defend and indemnify Sun and its >>>> licensors from >>>> and against any damages, costs, liabilities, settlement >>>> amounts >>>> and/or expenses (including attorneys' fees) incurred in >>>> connection with any claim, lawsuit or action by any >>>> third party >>>> that arises or results from the use or distribution of >>>> any and >>>> all Programs and/or Software. >>>> >>>> The term "vendors" used here refers to licensees, >>>> developers, and >>>> independent software vendors (ISVs) who license and >>>> distribute the >>>> J2SE Runtime Environment with their programs. >>>> >>>> Vendors must follow the terms of the J2SE Runtime >>>> Environment Binary >>>> Code License agreement. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft >>> Defy all challenges. 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