Datum: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 09:11:20 +0100 (CET)
Von: "Eric Lavarde - FreeMind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [Freemind-developer] 0.8.1 min Java included
Hi Chris,
thinking it over, I still see two points against packaging Java:
1. Security is one side, bugs are another, you still need to repackage
if
a Java bug impacts FreeMind.
2. Back to security: especially given the fact that we've now got a
scripting engine, FreeMind is also a security issue entry (think about
Word documents with macros) and as such, we need to be careful.
This said, it's not a strong opposition, and as long as I don't need to
package or support such a thing on Linux, you are free to do it :-)
And again, I don't think any license issue speaks against it. Java 7
being
under GPL, it's another story, theoretically, we would need as well to
offer all the sources, but it's the same issue for all GPL libraries we
already use.
Cheers, Eric
Christian Foltin (GMX) said:
Hi,
ad 2: well, with an embedded java, this jvm is only used for FreeMind.
Thus, the need for security updates is not so big, is it?
And moreover, I'm seeing into the future, when Jre7.0 gets open
source.
Then, there would be no problem at all.
Well, let's see.
Chris
Eric Lavarde schrieb:
Hi,
I'm not really happy either with the idea to bundle FreeMind with
Java:
1. not because of the licensing reasons, my understanding was always
that GPL is about linking and not bundling:
"In addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the
Program
with the Program (or with a work based on the Program) on a volume of
a storage or distribution medium does not bring the other work under
the scope of this License."
2. but because we carry the responsibility in terms of security
updates.
Sun brings rather often security updates and we would have to
generate
a
new release each time.
I would rather see an installer checking for the existence of Java
(with
a correct version), and warn the user if it's missing, opening on
request a browser with the java download URL.
Eric
Dan Polansky wrote:
Dear Chris,
as promised, I have now posted the zip with updated Windows
launchers,
one taking Java from "jre/bin/javaw.exe", into the following patch:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1361629&group_id=7118&atid=307118
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1361629&group_id=7118&atid=307118>
I have created a documentation page about the Windows launcher:
http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Windows_launcher
As regards licensing: In an email that you have sent to me and that
I
am
quoting below, you have referred me to two open source projects that
bundle Java into their installers. I have added them into the wiki:
http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Licensing
However, the first project does not have a pure GPL; they have
modified
it to make it possible to link with non-free code.
The second project does not state their license on their web page;
that
they have GPL follows from their entry in their SourceForge project
page. There is no evidence that the other project knows what they
are
doing.
I see no evidence that bundling FreeMind, licensed under pure GPL
V2+,
with Java is legally correct.
Best regards,
Dan
Chris wrote:
Hi Dan,
you requested to find open source with java included. Here are
two
of them:
http://www.mondobeyondo.com/projects/stopmojo/
http://tiffanys.sourceforge.net/
Both on sourceforge.
Do you still remember to create the different exe for me?
Thanks,
Chris
--
On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 8:43 PM, Dan Polansky
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
Dear Chris,
okay; I will create the exe in any case, regardless of the
opened
licensing issue. This I will do no sooner than on the coming
weekend.
But as regards licensing, IMHO we should proceed in a
risk-averse
way, and consider such a bundling a license violation, unless
clearly demonstrated otherwise. My concern is not that we
violate
Sun's license; my concern is that we violate FreeMind's GNU GPL.
I prefer hard facts to speculation. And I prefer to rely on the
thought and experience of a multitude of other people, those who
are
experienced or if possible expert, if available. Do you know of
any
other open source software licensed under GNU GPL that contains
Java
bundled?
I understand that FreeMind needs Java. FreeMind also needs an
operating system, some of which are proprietary. The key point
is
*bundling*, not *need*, from what I understand.
Best regards,
Dan
On Feb 18, 2008 8:25 PM, Christian Foltin (GMX)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
wrote:
Hi Dan,
beside the licensing, do you still create the .exe for me?
The
packaging needs some time to be created.
Moreover, remember, that every user of FreeMind needs Java
to
execute FreeMind.
And it is only the question, if we are allowed to package
and
distribute the java with our proprietary program.
We can' t claim, that the result is GPL (at least not for
java
5+6, java7 is gpl, but not available AFAIK).
Perhaps, consider
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-java-faq/
Best regards, Chris
Dan Polansky schrieb:
Dear Chris,
I think it should be possible for me to make it tomorrow to
produce a version of FreeMind.exe that takes the Java
runtime
from a specific directory.
But what I see as an issue is the licensing of Java
runtime.
Though I have already devoted some attention to copyright
issues, I am still a non-expert. FreeMind is licensed under
GNU GPL; bundling with it something that has not an open
source license seems highly risky of copyright violation.
Unless we have a clear evidence that there are no licensing
issues, we should avoid bundling with FreeMind anything
without a license compatible with GNU GPL.
Best regards,
Dan
On Feb 16, 2008 10:41 PM, Christian Foltin (GMX)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
wrote:
Dear Dan,
this will cost you at least a couple of beer ;-)
Dan, I want to publish an installer version including
the
java runtime:
FreeMind-0-8-1-max-Java-included, too. What do you
think?
From the license of the runtime, it should be possible
(see below).
I would need your help in creating a freemind.exe that
takes a java.exe
from a subdirectory jre/bin/java.exe.
Can you supply such an exe, soon?
Regards,
Chris
=======================================================================
Redistribution of the J2SE Runtime Environment
=======================================================================
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE - The license for this software does not allow
the
redistribution of beta and other pre-release
versions.
--------------------------------------------------------
Subject to the terms and conditions of the Software
License
Agreement and the obligations, restrictions, and
exceptions set
forth below, You may reproduce and distribute the
Software
(and
also portions of Software identified below as
Redistributable),
provided that:
(a) you distribute the Software complete and unmodified
and only
bundled as part of Your applets and applications
("Programs"),
(b) your Programs add significant and primary
functionality to the
Software,
(c) your Programs are only intended to run on
Java-enabled
general
purpose desktop computers and servers,
(d) you distribute Software for the sole purpose of
running your
Programs,
(e) you do not distribute additional software intended
to
replace
any component(s) of the Software,
(f) you do not remove or alter any proprietary legends
or
notices
contained in or on the Software,
(g) you only distribute the Software subject to a
license
agreement
that protects Sun's interests consistent with the
terms
contained in this Agreement, and
(h) you agree to defend and indemnify Sun and its
licensors from
and against any damages, costs, liabilities,
settlement
amounts
and/or expenses (including attorneys' fees) incurred
in
connection with any claim, lawsuit or action by any
third party
that arises or results from the use or distribution
of
any and
all Programs and/or Software.
The term "vendors" used here refers to licensees,
developers, and
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J2SE Runtime Environment with their programs.
Vendors must follow the terms of the J2SE Runtime
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