Glenn, 

is THIS:

I _may_, however, be able to simulate what Robert Rosen might say. The
knitter is the efficient cause of the sweater. And, hence, the sweater
is NOT closed to efficient cause. Hence, the sweater is not a complex
system. And, if we assume all complex systems exhibit emergence, then
he would say the sweater is NOT emergent (except perhaps if we expand
the "system" to include the actors which constitute the efficient cause,
of course).

of the form:

All swans are white
This bird is white
This bird is a swan

?  

Nick 

ps: Re Rosen;  were you around two summers ago when I was beating my gums
into plough shares trying to understand Rosen's Life Itself?  I am hoping
to get back to Rosen as one of the people who has a highly restricted view
of emergence and who is also highly enthusiastic about downward causation. 
Who, in fact, is trying to create a formalism -- DENSMORE ALERT-- to
describe such. 
n

PS:  

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, 
Clark University ([email protected])
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/




> [Original Message]
> From: glen e. p. ropella <[email protected]>
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]>
> Date: 9/25/2009 9:00:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Inquiry to Emergence Group
>
> Thus spake ERIC P. CHARLES circa 09/25/2009 06:08 AM:
> > I was wondering how the different authors in the book would describe
this
> > situation. In particular, it would seem natural to say that the string
isn't
> > the  sweater BECAUSE the sweater is "emergent". 
>
> Just to be clear, you're asking for (at least one of) us to simulate
> what (some or all of) the authors in Bedau & Humphreys would say about
> whether or not the sweater emerges from the thread?  I.e. you are NOT
> asking for OUR opinions.
>
> If so, I can't respond until I've a) read the book at least once and b)
> modeled each author at least to the extent that I'd be willing to
> simulate them.  That's a tall order!  I doubt I'll ever be motivated or
> incentivized to do that.  But if you ask again in, say, a month, maybe
> I'll have a different answer. ;-)
>
> I _may_, however, be able to simulate what Robert Rosen might say.  The
> knitter is the efficient cause of the sweater.  And, hence, the sweater
> is NOT closed to efficient cause.  Hence, the sweater is not a complex
> system.  And, if we assume all complex systems exhibit emergence, then
> he would say the sweater is NOT emergent (except perhaps if we expand
> the "system" to include the actors which constitute the efficient cause,
> of course).
>
> -- 
> glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://agent-based-modeling.com
>
>
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