Thus spake Nicholas Thompson circa 09-09-25 01:09 PM:
> Glenn, 

OK.  Shirley you're just messing with me, Nik. ;-)

> is THIS:
> 
>> I _may_, however, be able to simulate what Robert Rosen might say. The
>> knitter is the efficient cause of the sweater. And, hence, the sweater
>> is NOT closed to efficient cause. Hence, the sweater is not a complex
>> system. And, if we assume all complex systems exhibit emergence, then
>> he would say the sweater is NOT emergent (except perhaps if we expand
>> the "system" to include the actors which constitute the efficient cause,
>> of course).
> 
> of the form:
> 
> All swans are white
> This bird is white
> This bird is a swan
> 
> ?  

Yes, except that I misspoke (surprise surprise).  I meant to say "if we
assume that _only_ complex systems exhibit emergence, then RR would say
the sweater is NOT emergent."

So, it would be of the form:

Only swans are white.
This object is white.
.: This object is a swan.

I think this is just the contrapositive.  But remember that my
simulation added that last part.  RR didn't talk about "emergence" as
far as I'm aware.

> ps: Re Rosen;  were you around two summers ago when I was beating my gums
> into plough shares trying to understand Rosen's Life Itself?  I am hoping
> to get back to Rosen as one of the people who has a highly restricted view
> of emergence and who is also highly enthusiastic about downward causation. 
> Who, in fact, is trying to create a formalism -- DENSMORE ALERT-- to
> describe such. 

Yes.  I was here.  I'm not an expert on Rosen.... I'm probably not even
a competent pseudo-expert.  But I enjoy yapping uselessly about how we
might make his work useful.

-- 
glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://agent-based-modeling.com


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