I agree that "export externalities" is a strange phrase. I think the intended meaning is to export costs to the environment to avoid paying for them directly. The obvious example is pollution. The polluter doesn't pay because he exports that cost to the world at large.
Markets and competition to my mind are quite different things. But that's a separate thread. *-- Russ Abbott* *_____________________________________________* *** Professor, Computer Science* * California State University, Los Angeles* * Google voice: 747-*999-5105 * blog: *http://russabbott.blogspot.com/ vita: http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/ *_____________________________________________* On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 9:33 PM, Carl Tollander <[email protected]> wrote: > This is a weird turn of phrase, to "export externalities". Where are we > exporting them from if they are already, well, external? Hmph. > > Of course we import them as well, for example the flight you take today is > safer and cheaper because the complex of airplane manufacturers, airports > and regulators conspired to ever more efficiently metabolize the errors that > made some poor chump's airplane fall out of the sky 40 years ago. I think > this is part of the civilization contract. At some point someone in the > future you don't even know will have a better time of it because the > civilization learned from something that made your own life less than > stellar. > > There seem to be some folks that believe this can only happen, or happens > primarily through markets and competition. I confess that the notion that > there is at any given instant a "true cost" or a "true price" for a good or > service is seeming to me increasingly quaint. > > > On 3/24/11 9:38 PM, Russ Abbott wrote: > > Yes, and no. > > Nick, you wrote, " if we are to base our economy on competition, then the > practice of exporting externalities ... has to stop " The fact is that if > we base our economy on competition, there is every incentive to export > externalities. We can, of course, make rules and regulations that attempt > to limit those exports. And those who benefit by such exports will look for > other ways to export externalities. But I'm sure you and everyone else on > this list already know that. > > *-- Russ * > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 7:02 PM, Nicholas Thompson < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Vlad, > > > > Not sure why Peggy’s comment deserved such a trolllish response. > > > > I will join in her view that if we are to base our economy on competition, > then the practice of exporting externalities to the neighborhoods and > nations of the powerless has to stop. We have to work to find the true cost > of products and that needs to be reflected in the price. Then and only then > does competition rise above exploitation. I realize that this is not > necessarily easy, but if one believes in the market place, it has to be > done. > > > > By the way, what more do you need to know to demonstrate that cigarette > smoking has associated health care costs? > > > > Nick Thompson, > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On > Behalf Of *Vladimyr Burachynsky > *Sent:* Thursday, March 24, 2011 7:21 PM > *To:* 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] vol 93, issue 22 > > > > It appears that your conclusion was made independent of the facts. Perhaps > your conclusion serves some unidentified agenda, could you explain who WE is > and how the PRICE TAG is adjusted to effect a specific end? > > I ecall how the price of cigarettes in Canada was increased to reflect the > supposed increased health care costs > > > > > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On > Behalf Of *peggy miller > *Sent:* March-24-11 6:12 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* [FRIAM] vol 93, issue 22 > > > > Thanks for input from a number of you on the magnet/toxins/windmill issue. > Seems like we need to get wind turbine price tag to include pollution > mitigation at bare minimum. > > -- > > Peggy Miller, owner/OEO > > Highland Winds > wix.com/peggymiller/highlandwinds > Shop is at 1520 S. 7th St. W. (Just west of Russell) > > Art, Photography, Herbs and Writings > > 406-541-7577 (home/office/shop) > Shop Hours: Wed-Thurs 3-7 pm > Fri-Sat: 8:30-12:30 am > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
