No, Stephen, not Eric. On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 10:07 PM Stephen Guerin <[email protected]> wrote:
> Merle, > > Hopefully you aren't referring to Eric's suggestion for a framework of > analysis and planning. I suspect your use of Embodied Energy is > complimentary to his description. > > On Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 4:41 PM Merle Lefkoff <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> I'm afraid I have to bail from this stream because it causes me to >> question once more how people in the West get educated. >> >> >>> Pieter, >>> >>> >>> >>> I meant the “has to be” a bit ironically. The sound of an ugly fact >>> puncturing a beautiful theory. Psssssst! >>> >>> >>> >>> If I were to believe that populations were rising, that copper use was >>> rising, that copper supplies were flat or dwindling, why would I not >>> expect copper prices to be rising? >>> >>> >>> >>> Which of my assumptions is wrong. >>> >>> >>> >>> Or is it your expectation that we will develop a plastic with the >>> conductive properties of copper? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Nick Thompson >>> >>> [email protected] >>> >>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Pieter >>> Steenekamp >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 15, 2021 1:03 PM >>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >>> [email protected]> >>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] A Theory of (Almost) Everything - IEEE Spectrum >>> >>> >>> >>> Nick, >>> >>> I'm not with you, what HAS to be wrong? >>> >>> It's impossible to predict the future, anything could happen. I'm >>> particularly attracted to the views of David Deutsch. I quote from his >>> https://www.thebeginningofinfinity.com/ : >>> " The resulting stream of ever-improving explanations has potentially >>> *infinite >>> reach*: we are subject only to the laws of physics, and they impose no >>> upper limit to what we can eventually understand, control, and achieve. >>> " >>> >>> Life on earth is good and is getting better and better for all of us. >>> Sure, a disaster could strike, nothing is inevitable, but I can see no >>> reason why the progress we have made HAS to stop. Why? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 at 20:11, <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Pieter, >>> >>> >>> >>> That just HAS to be wrong. What am I missing, here? NOT a rhetorical >>> question. >>> >>> >>> >>> Does anybody know, in orders of magnitude, the relation between the >>> potential rooftop gain and the total energy needs of a place like Santa Fe? >>> >>> >>> >>> N >>> >>> >>> >>> Nick Thompson >>> >>> [email protected] >>> >>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Pieter >>> Steenekamp >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 15, 2021 11:58 AM >>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >>> [email protected]> >>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] A Theory of (Almost) Everything - IEEE Spectrum >>> >>> >>> >>> Yeah, just like we were seriously running out of stuff in 1980 >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon%E2%80%93Ehrlich_wager >>> But of course, it's different this time around >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 at 19:41, Merle Lefkoff <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Nick, I think we have an energy supply problem. We don't have enough >>> stuff left in the ground to dig up to supply our technology much longer at >>> a price anyone can afford. I have a colleague who has calculated that we >>> will run out of copper in three years, as just one example. My >>> understanding is that copper wire conducts most of our electricity. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 11:17 AM <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Merle, and all, >>> >>> >>> >>> A naïve question: Do we have an energy supply problem or do we have an >>> energy distribution problem? For starters, let there be a solar collector >>> on the roof of every house in santa fe, roughly the area of the roof >>> (roofly the area of the rough?) . Assuming energy were entirely miscible, >>> what proportion of the total energy needs (except food, of course) of Santa >>> Feans would that generate. I assume hundreds of percents, right? >>> >>> >>> >>> N >>> >>> >>> >>> Nick Thompson >>> >>> [email protected] >>> >>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Merle Lefkoff >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 15, 2021 10:51 AM >>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >>> [email protected]> >>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] A Theory of (Almost) Everything - IEEE Spectrum >>> >>> >>> >>> Almost, but not quite, Jochen. He doesn't know about embodied energy. >>> A motor car has an embodied energy contents of 20 800k kWh, while an >>> electric car's embodied energy amounts to 34 700 kWh. Perhaps if he knew >>> this he wouldn't be so optimistic. We are racing toward our doom. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 10:06 AM Jochen Fromm <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Interesting IEEE podcast: an interview with Václav Smil, who wrote a >>> book about "Grand Transitions", similar to "The Major Transitions in >>> Evolution" from John Maynard Smith and Eörs Szathmáry >>> >>> >>> https://spectrum.ieee.org/podcast/geek-life/history/a-theory-of-almost-everything >>> >>> >>> >>> -J. >>> >>> >>> >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. >>> Center for Emergent Diplomacy >>> emergentdiplomacy.org >>> >>> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA >>> >>> >>> mobile: (303) 859-5609 >>> skype: merle.lelfkoff2 >>> >>> twitter: @merle110 >>> >>> >>> >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. >>> Center for Emergent Diplomacy >>> emergentdiplomacy.org >>> >>> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA >>> >>> >>> mobile: (303) 859-5609 >>> skype: merle.lelfkoff2 >>> >>> twitter: @merle110 >>> >>> >>> >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> >> >> -- >> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. >> Center for Emergent Diplomacy >> emergentdiplomacy.org >> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA >> >> mobile: (303) 859-5609 >> skype: merle.lelfkoff2 >> twitter: @merle110 >> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > -- Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. Center for Emergent Diplomacy emergentdiplomacy.org Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA mobile: (303) 859-5609 skype: merle.lelfkoff2 twitter: @merle110
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