Lawry, It doesn't have to be "right, or acceptable, or intelligent". It just has to be effective. If it isn't effective, it should be changed to something that is effective.
As for your going back into history, it is unlikely that the average Iraqi, or Palestinian knows anything about it. Hey! Lets get revenge for the Moors' - out of Damascus - invasion of Europe! I don't think that unfortunate Brazilian was killed because he "MIGHT be a terrorist" but because he MIGHT be a bomber. And the police realized they had blown it by letting the guy board a tube train. Quick, it's happening right before you. What would you do? Harry ******************************* Henry George School of Social Science of Los Angeles Box 655 Tujunga CA 91042 818 352-4141 ******************************* > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:futurework- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lawrence deBivort > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 9:32 AM > To: 'Cordell, Arthur: ECOM'; futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca > Cc: 'Keith Hudson' > Subject: RE: [Futurework] London Assassins were Trained in > Israel > > "If", Arthur, "if". Killing people because a person MIGHT be a > terrorist > is simply not acceptable, morally or legally. Israeli authorities may > do it > to Palestinians because they don't consider Palestinians to be equal > human > beings, but at least in London and elsewhere it is NOT acceptable. > > "If" is simply not good enough. You, after all, MIGHT be a > terrorist. Is > that good enough reason to take you out? Or your son MIGHT be. > Is that > reason enough to bring him down? > > The London police panicked -- perhaps their training was at the > heart of it, > but that is no excuse. And the US military, in its might, is > worldwide > taking people out who MIGHT be enemies. > > But that doesn't make it is right, or acceptable, or intelligent. > > The only solution is the one I suggested. Too bad if that makes > Europeans > have to look 'backward', and have to give up some of their ill-gotten > gains, > and have to apologize for their ancestors, as well as their > CURRENT > depredations. That's the way the world and people work; they > remember, and > they have a sense of what is just and what is not. Too bad for them > that > not more Europeans and ex-Europeans understand this. Until they > do, times > will be tough for them. > > Bush's 'war on terrorism' has brought all this to the fore. Perhaps > before > that blunder, Europeans might have got away with what they have > done in the > past, and might have been excused much of their current harmful > policies and > behavior (attributing it to ignorance), but I do believe that that > opportunity has been lost. > > If Europeans want to live in peace, they will have to 'look > backwards' and > rectify their mistakes, hard and currently unthinkable as that may > seem to > many of them. > > Lawry > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Cordell, Arthur: > ECOM > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 11:46 AM > To: Lawrence deBivort; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > Christoph Reuss; > futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca > Subject: RE: [Futurework] London Assassins were Trained in > Israel > > arthur > > I believe that if the "poor fellow" had indeed been a bomber and > exploded > himself and in the process killing and wounding passengers on the > subway, > then the superiors of the officers involved would have blamed the > officers. > The press would have been involved in the usual Monday morning > quarter-backing with the usual 20-20 hindsight. Why didn't they > do this? > Why didn't they do that? Etc. > > > Lawry > > What to do now? The US and the UK should stop panicking. They > should start > assessing what they have done in history and currently to provoke > these > stupidities, and they should move to redress those things. > > > arthur > > No one has "clean hands". Any review of history will show that > each group, > each country, each religion, etc., has done some terrible things. I > don't > think we can redress these things, but of course we can learn from > history. > "Life can only be understood by looking backward, but must be > lived going > forward." > > The question is: What to do right now when bombers/terrrorists or > whatever > seem to have declared open season on innocents? Innocents > meaning people > alive today who nothing whatsoever to do with the "sins" of past > generations. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawrence deBivort [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 9:32 AM > To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > 'Christoph > Reuss'; futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca > Subject: RE: [Futurework] London Assassins were Trained in > Israel > > > No one would blame the London police if they had not shot this > poor fellow. > Not a soul, except those perhaps who want to embroil the UK in a > general war > on the Third World, as they have the US. > > What to do now? The US and the UK should stop panicking. They > should start > assessing what they have done in history and currently to provoke > these > stupidities, and they should move to redress those things. Only then > can the > US and the UK start to expect that they will be treated with respect > and > viewed as contributing members of the international community. > > I am picking on the US and UK; I should enlarge my comment to > include all > colonial and neo-colonial powers. Italians, Spaniards, Belgians, > French, > Portuguese, Mexicans -- the lot. > > Until this happens, these countries will be under an historical > burden and > guilt that will jeopardize their hopes to live peacefully in a peaceful > world. > > Cheers, > Lawry > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Cordell, Arthur: > ECOM > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 10:25 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Christoph Reuss; > futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca > Subject: RE: [Futurework] London Assassins were Trained in > Israel > > Harry's question still stands. > > I know that it would be nice to avoid grievances and for us all to > live in > peace and harmony. But at this juncture: What to do? > > If the police don't shoot they are blamed. If the police shoot they > are > blamed. > > arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Harry > Pollard > Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 11:40 PM > To: 'Christoph Reuss'; futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca > Subject: RE: [Futurework] London Assassins were Trained in > Israel > > > Chris, > > What would you do if someone in a heavy overcoat on a hot > day - someone who was under your surveillance - went into > the subway and boarded a train, soon after similar > situations in which bombs had been exploded killing 50 > people? > > You needn't answer, for you are never faced with that > situation. > > It's always easy - for a non-player - to complain at > mistakes made by those who are trying to save multiple > casualties and must think and act quickly. > > Harry > > ******************************* > Henry George School of Social Science > of Los Angeles > Box 655 Tujunga CA 91042 > 818 352-4141 > ******************************* > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:futurework- > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christoph Reuss > > Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 1:16 PM > > To: futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca > > Subject: [Futurework] London Assassins were Trained in > Israel > > > > As the Guardian reports, the squad who executed an > innocent man > > in the > > Stockwell tube station with 5 shots to the head, have been > trained in > > Israel in the IDF style of dealing with "suspects" -- > shoot to kill, > > playing policeman, attorney, judge and henchman in one > person at > > the same time. > > > > Refs: > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,15347 > 79,0 > > 0.html > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,15347 > 53,0 > > 0.html > > > > The British public has to wonder if it really wants to > copy the > > archaic > > travesty of a rule of law from Israel. From a historical > perspective, > > it's a shameful irony that Britain now allows its > "anti-terror" forces > > to be trained by the same state that performed terrorist > attacks > > against > > British civilians and forces in Palestine and elsewhere in > the 1940s, > > and > > appointed the leaders of these terrorist groups to its > first Prime > > Ministers. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it > contains the > > keyword > > "igve". > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Futurework mailing list > > Futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca > > http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > Futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca > http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > Futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca > http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > Futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca > http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > Futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca > http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list Futurework@fes.uwaterloo.ca http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
