Unfortunately, Bill, you're probably right and, even more unfortunately, but
inevitably, that same approach reigns in the political and governmental
sectors as well and that is why we are in the pickle we now find ourselves
in.
Selma
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Futurework] Why men succeed at work
> Selma,
>
> I feel the second approach is certainly to be preferred but my guess is
> that the average male businessman has similar approaches to business that
> George Bush does to weaker nations.
>
> Bill
>
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:45:23 -0400 "Selma Singer"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > I have mixed feelings about that, Bill.
> >
> > There are two schools of thought about how women should compete in a
> > male
> > marketplace. One school obviously consists in those women who try to
> > beat
> > men at their own game; i.e., learn how to manipulate and use power
> > the way
> > men do.
> >
> > Another school, which I'm sure you'll agree, is probably unrealistic
> > in many
> > ways, would like to see the business world change so that it becomes
> > more
> > humane and this latter school hopes that having more women in the
> > business
> > world will make that more possible.
> >
> > I think there is a little bit of evidence that there has been a
> > recognition
> > in some quarters that a more humane approach actually increases
> > profit, but
> > it hasn't gone very far. For a while there was some discussion of
> > the
> > "feminization" of the workplace as less brutal methods were seen as
> > beneficial for business.
> >
> > I haven't been involved in current events in either sociology or
> > women's
> > studies for the last eight years so I don't know what's been
> > happening in
> > that regard. Perhaps there are some on this list who are more
> > up-to-date.
> >
> > Selma
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 10:45 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Futurework] Why men succeed at work
> >
> >
> > > Selma,
> > >
> > > I certainly agree with you. Rather than expecting men to change, I
> > feel
> > > that there is need to set up a training program so that women will
> > be
> > > able to steal men's signals.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:35:58 -0400 "Selma Singer"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > > There is considerable sociological evidence that women are at a
> > > > disadvantage
> > > > in business relationships precisely, as Bill has noted, because
> > they
> > > > do not
> > > > have the same experience with sports that boys and men do.
> > > >
> > > > As a feminist who is not crazy about capitalism, I don't
> > necessarily
> > > > believe
> > > > that that kind of interaction is necessarily good for human or
> > > > societal
> > > > development but that is a totally different issue.
> > > >
> > > > Selma
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 9:14 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Futurework] Why men succeed at work
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Ray,
> > > > >
> > > > > You are absolutely right. A lot of times, men skip important
> > > > issues and
> > > > > come to a resolution having to do with the power structure of
> > the
> > > > group
> > > > > or with known vested interests. A lot of times, women realize
> > that
> > > > there
> > > > > are better ways of dealing with the issue but still are
> > unaware
> > > > that the
> > > > > power structure has ended discussions. I certainly was not
> > trying
> > > > to
> > > > > imply that men are better decision makers, just that they are
> > > > attune to
> > > > > signals coming in from the bench.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:10:05 -0400 "Ray Evans Harrell"
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > writes:
> > > > > > Was the issue truly resolved or was it just that a decision
> > had
> > > > been
> > > > > > made?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > REH
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 8:53 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Futurework] Why men succeed at work
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > My hypothesis as to why men do better at work is that men,
> > due
> > > > to
> > > > > > their
> > > > > > > sports and other patterns of interaction, have created
> > > > nonverbal
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > coded patterns of communication when doing business. I
> > have
> > > > seen
> > > > > > > situations where negotiations on an issue have ended
> > where
> > > > both
> > > > > > men and
> > > > > > > women are present and women have not realized that a
> > decision
> > > > has
> > > > > > been
> > > > > > > made.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The males will be moving on to other issues while the
> > woman
> > > > is
> > > > > > still
> > > > > > > discussing the issue unaware that it has been resolved.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 00:02:18 -0700 Stephen Straker
> > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > > > > > > > from this week's Economist:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > <<<<
> > > > > > > > > BE A MAN
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Men compete harder than women. That is why they do
> > better
> > > > > > > > > at work ...
> > > > > > > > [cut]
> > > > > > > > > women
> > > > > > > > > and men have different attitudes to competing...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Maybe's men's attitudes towards work and towards their
> > > > > > > > fellow workers is part of the PROBLEM ... ("Do unto
> > others
> > > > > > > > before they do it unto you", etc.). Many things we have
> > > > > > > > talked about on this list over the years would suggest
> > as
> > > > > > > > much.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Stephen Straker
> > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > > > Vancouver, B.C.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
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