well Mohsin, I didn't personally take your comments as offensive, just as a perspective I didn't personally agree entirely with. What you say about goals though is an itneresting point, though i suspect it's something which will change as more games are developed.

Lunimals for example has a basic system of what you mean in terms of multiple goals and methods of completion.

while I do agree complexity and design are an area game developers need to work more on, at the same time knowing what I do about independently produced pc games which have had an analagous amount of resources and dev time spent on them such as dwarf fortress, I don't believe it is impossible at all, particularly since it is not so much a question of coding or effort as of design.

One of the things I dislike about the pvp orientated empire and space stratogy mmorpgs is indeed that there is only one thing to do and aime for, not being crushed by other players. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between.

As I said, a couple of years ago people would likely have been saying the same about swamp, indeed I sort of remember debates along those lines.

Beware the Grue!

Dark.

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