Hi Rynhardt,

Oh I think I expressed myself carelessly. I have sent off a lot of bug reports to Andreas, the creator of AngelScript, and so I have definitely done what I can to make the library more stable by testing it myself as well as letting all my users test it of course. This benefits both myself, my customers, Andreas and all his other AngelScript users, and is a splended thing. What I was trying to say was that I would not myself want to lead an open source project of the same scale as I can see no way to justify the time and money that would have to go into it.


Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rynhardt Kruger" <rynkru...@gmail.com>
To: <phi...@blastbay.com>; "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Engines was Heli


Hi Philip,

... But I would never make any of my games open source
because of the simple fact that I don't want people to mess around
with or steal my source code. ...
<snip>

Indeed that is your choice. Actually by using angelscript in BGT you make it available to a wide audience for testing
and thus contributing indirectly to it's development.

I hope I didn't came across as advocating in my original message. I was just stating the other side of the argument.
Maybe I was advocating a bit, but that's my choice as well. <smile>

Take care,

Rynhardt

* Philip Bennefall <phi...@blastbay.com> [110123 16:13]:
Hi Thomas and Rhynhardt,

I'm neither for or against open source software. I am very thankful
to those who write open source libraries and allow them to be used
in commercial applications, as that speeds up my own development by
about 500 %. But I would never make any of my games open source
because of the simple fact that I don't want people to mess around
with or steal my source code. I have spent a considerable sum of
money outsourcing a lot of the core parts of my game engine and so
it would be utter foolishness for me to simply throw that money in
the sea as we say in Sweden. It is for the same reason that I
protect my sounds from being altered or stolen, because I don't want
the investments I have made in that department to simply be
exploited. I'm happy to provide my game engine along with some open
source components to do trivial things such as my menu class, my
sound pool class to handle audio environments, my number speaker
class to intelligently concatenate sound files to have numbers
spoken, etc etc. But the real code is protected and always will be.

For my Mac port when the time comes, I will probably be using
CoreAudio directly. For networking I can stick with what I already
have, since ENet fits the bill for BGT perfectly and already works
on Mac OS as far as I'm aware. The same goes for AngelScript.

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rynhardt Kruger"
<rynkru...@gmail.com>
To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Engines was Heli


Hi Thomas and others,

Just a few points from a probably biased user :-)
I think the idea of Open Source Software are generally miss understood.
Part of that may be because of the fact that certain groups prefer
to call it Free Software, which is associated with
freeware.
Open source software is not freeware and will never be. The idea of
Open Source Software is just that the source code
should be open and available to any one who would like to study or
modify it. That is also the reason that many people
including myself prefer to use Linux. If I want my computer to say
"hello" every time it begins the boot process, I can
do so without having to edit some binary file with a hex editor.
Also it encourage the studying of source code. Thus
if someone enters the audio gaming community, he/she can immediately
find out how a game engine works for instance
without having to reinvent the wheel. Some people think that open
source software grows faster than other software, but
that is mostly open for debate.
Nothing prevents one from selling a program under the GPL, although
your users must receive the same rights under the
GPL, and can for instance sell it themselves, modify it or just give
it away. One thing I've thought  about is to put
the game itself under an open source license, and sell the sounds
and/or music.

Take care,

Rynhardt

* Thomas Ward <thomasward1...@gmail.com> [110123 04:53]:
>Hi Philip,
>
>That is very good to know. As I mentioned in my earlier message to the
>list I'm currently looking at replacing one of my computers with a
>Mac. Recently my old desktop, we used as a family computer, gave up
>the ghost over the Christmas holidays. Now, my wife and I are in the
>process of discussing replacing it. If we do decide to replace it with
>a Mac I'll be interested in porting my current projects, including the
>Genesis 3D Engine,  to Mac OS. If you happen to release a copy of BGT
>for Mac before I get there I'd probably consider buying a license for
>the port.
>
>However, that said the APIs for Linux and the APIs for Mac OS are not
>that different. For example, I have a rough idea of how I'm going to
>create the Mac OS and Linux version of the Genesis Engine. I'll begin
>with writing a middleware library similar to Streemway that wraps
>OpenAL and loads wav, ogg, and other open source file types and mixes
>them with OpenAL. For things like threading, serialization, etc I'll
>use the cross-platform boost library. Finally, input, networking, and
>the window manager will be handled by SDL 1.2. I believe that this
>would provide an excellent basis for any game engine targeting the Mac
>or Linux operating systems.
>
>Although, there is an alternative way of handling this. SFML already
>has a decent networking API, supports OpenAL via sfml-audio, input
>handling is fine, threading works pretty good on Linux, and the only
>complaint I have is the window manager. It works fine on Linux, I hear
>it works fine on Mac, but crashes the OS on Windows. So SFML sounds
>like the best solution for a Mac specific engine, but I wouldn't
>consider SFML for a Windows engine based on its buggy window manager.
>
>Still I agree with you that at this point Mac is a developers second
>choice in terms of operating system to support.  While Linux is fine
>as an operating system most of the Linux users I know left Linux in
>favor of the Mac. Plus because Mac OS is a commercial operating system
> the majority of the people using it are willing to pay money for
>commercial software. All too many Linux users I know are hung up on
>the free and open source view and absolutely refuse to pay for
>commercial software in any way, shape, or form. They expect software
>for Linux to remain free, open source, and without commercial
>licensing. That is unrealistic considering the fact I have to license
>music, sounds, and so on that costs me hundreds of dollars per game.
>The Marxist view that all software should be free, shared, community
>property is fine to a certain point, but doesn't work if we are
>dealing with capitalist companies out to make a buck for everything.
>Therefore since we live in a capitalist society I have to run my
>software company that way to make a buck myself to continue producing
>said products.
>
>In short, I agree with you. Mac is probably my next choice as well. It
>has nothing to do with weather I like Linux or not. I've just
>concluded the money isn't really in it. Between the fact there are
>less users their and the fact too many are hung up on Marxist idiology
>it will be very hard to market a commercial product there. If I can
>produce Linux versions inexpensively and make a few extra on it fine,
>but Mac and Windows seam to me to be the most financially viable
>markets long term.
>
>HTH
>
>
>On 1/22/11, Philip Bennefall <phi...@blastbay.com> wrote:
>> Hi Thomas,
>>
>> Just to enter in this discussion a little. I am actually
>considering > buying
>> a Mac when I have enough money saved up. I'm not very interested
>in > Linux,
>> so I believe that when I do eventually begin the work of porting BGT to
>> another platform it'll be on Mac to start with.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Philip Bennefall
>
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