Doug Riddle wrote: > Totalitarian governments were the norm throughout history. I am > certainly no fan of them, but aside from the late-era Greeks, the > early-era Romans, and us, there are no records of open and free > societies. Yet, advances happened. Granted, religious hegemonies are > not the best form of government for scientific advancement, but the arts > have been known to get good attention. Astronomy certainly prospered > under the Chinese emperors and the South American kings. Medicine, and > animal husbandry did quite well under the Egyptian pharos. Engineering > has always been done either by armies or priests. From the pyramids, to > the ports and roads, the Egyptians set standards that are still pretty > high. The Romans were no slouches either. Both of those societies kept > slaves, used forced labor and made constant war or their neighbors. The > Chinese likewise used forced labor and slaves to build the Great Wall. > Before we look too far down our noses at them, let's all go to the Rodeo > at Angola. We can record it on the video cameras made with child labor > or in the re-education factories in Asia. > > > > The type of government one lives under may affect the quality of ones > life, but it can hardly affect the quality of one's thoughts. Every > government throughout history has had some shining examples of heroism, > bravery, high art from its citizens. > > > > I would not say that the Muslims were the greatest society in recorded > history. The Hindu culture goes back eight thousand years in an > unbroken line. That certainly should get a nod. China has got to be in > the running. Egypt was stable far longer than the Muslim culture. > However, a simple look at the arts and structures from the Muslim > culture shows that at their height, they were at least as good as any > others.
I see that I mistyped what I meant to say. What I meant to say was that at a certain point in history, around 1000AD to 1300AD, Muslim civilization was the most advanced culture in the known world at that time, not that Muslim culture was the most advanced ever. Note however that our history is the history recorded by Western scholars. If I had to choose, I would say Hindu culture was the best example of civilization in recorded history, namely for producing and practicing an effective subjective science, but that's only my opinion. John > Can a culture be repressive and harsh and still foster art? Ask > Tolstoy, Raphael, or Confucius. Can a culture that owns slaves advance > freedom and the light of knowledge? Ask Plato, ask George Washington, > or ask Caesar Augustus. > > Doug > > Chopin Cusachs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I think that is a bit exaggerated. There were good and bad moments > for the > elites in > various places. It is important, also, to recall that even at its > peak the > Caliphate was, like > that of the Ottomans later, a slave society, with some of the > glitter of > the Ante Bellum > South. What freedom there was for the subject peoples resulted from the > benevolence of > a particular Caliph. > > I think much of the progress attributed to Muslim culture was a > mixture of > confusion of > classical with later achievements and efforts to discredit Christian > civilization. In Spain, > for instance, the irrigation works long attributed by English > writers to > the Moors have > now been determined by archeology to antedate the Muslim conquest. > I'm not > prepared > to accept a society with no rights at all for the majority as "most > civilized and advanced > in recorded history." > > Choppy > > > At 08:59 PM 1/2/03 -0600, John Hebert wrote: > >I think it depends on the attitude of the Caliph in power at the > time; > >some were pro-science, others not. Humanity has a lot to thank Muslim > >culture for; modern analytical medicine, algebra, architecture, > etc. Not > >all Caliphs were anti-science/anti-knowledge. At certain points in > time, > >the Muslim world was the most civilized and advanced in recorded > history. > >Sad that attitude is long gone. > > > _______________________________________________ > General mailing list > [email protected] > http://oxygen.nocdirect.com/mailman/listinfo/general_brlug.net > > > > Warmest Regards, > > Doug Riddle > http://www.dougriddle.com > http://fossile-project.sourceforge.net/ > http://www.libranet.com > -- "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are > the Peoples' Liberty Teeth." - George Washington -- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus > <http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com> - > Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > <http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com> -- John Hebert: [EMAIL PROTECTED] System Engineer: I T Group, Inc. http://www.it-group.com 225.922.4535
