-1.  
Jakarta already has two webapp frameworks and I do not see any reason to
add another.  It is great that Tapestry uses several jakarta
technologies; I would like to see some evidence of the Tapestry
community being involved in the jakarta projects of which it makes use. 
One other warning sign I see is that the second sentence on the
homepage:  

Tapestry is a powerful, open-source, all-Java framework for creating
leading edge web applications in Java. Tapestry has been developed by
Howard Lewis Ship.

Even though the project has other developers, such a statement so boldly
displayed, is a red flag.  Not that other essentially one man projects
have not attracted developers at jakarta, but, again, jakarta already
has 2 webapp framework projects.

john mcnally

On Fri, 2002-10-18 at 07:29, Ship, Howard wrote:
> Background
> 
> Tapestry, currently housed at the SourceForge (http://tapestry.sf.net), is 
>component-based web application framework.  Tapestry falls generally into the 
>pull-MVC model of development.
> 
> Tapestry is designed specifically around the creation of completely re-usable 
>components.  Components can easily be packaged into libraries and distributed as Jar 
>files, even when they contain assets such as image files and stylesheets.
> 
> Tapestry is organized around an abstraction that isolates application-specific logic 
>from the details of the servlet API, such as HttpSession, request, response, URLs and 
>query parameters.
> 
> Tapestry is highly pluggable, allowing any and all behavior to be customized by 
>subclassing appropriate base classes.
> 
> Tapestry is specifically not a JSP taglib, though future enhancements (scheduled for 
>the next release) will allow it to partially act as one.  Tapestry uses its own 
>method for instrumenting HTML that is extremely non-obtrusive (it still previews 
>properly in a WYSIWYG editor).  Tapestry has well specified, separate roles for HTML 
>producers and Java developers, and allows them to work together without interfering 
>with each other.
> 
> The goal of Tapestry is to shift much of the burden of developing web applications 
>onto the framework, and free the developer to work cleanly and effectively without 
>concern for the many small details of web application development.  The primary 
>function of Tapestry is the automatic creation of URLs by the framework, facilitating 
>a fine-grained dispatch model.  The bird's-eye view is that, in Tapestry, actions 
>(such as clicking a link, or submitting a form) are associated with a particular 
>component and, through a simple delegation system, a particular bit of user code.  
>There is no global registry of actions, as in Struts, and it's easy to create 
>reusable components that define their own behaviors (in terms of links or forms), 
>independent of the containing page.
> 
> Tapestry applications can be extremely sophisticated with surprising little code.
> 
> Tapestry includes a significant amount of documentation describing its strengths and 
>features in great detail, available at http://tapestry.sf.net.  Live demos, a great 
>collection of user quotes, extensive documentation (HTML and PDF) and a recent code 
>coverage report are all online.
> 
> Tapestry has been an open-source project on SourceForge since June 2000.  Milestone 
>releases (such as 2.1 in July, or the just-released 2.2) result in 6K - 7K downloads 
>(increasing by over 1K downloads with each successive release).  Tapestry has 
>averaged over 3000 downloads a month during 2002, with peaks above 8K/month.
> 
> Tapestry would benefit from Jakarta in terms of greater exposure and acceptance, but 
>also in terms of better infrastructure, such as Bugzilla and Maven.
> 
> Tapestry is currently in the Java package net.sf.tapestry; this could easily be 
>changed to org.apache.tapestry.
> 
> Tapestry is currently licensed under the LGPL, but relicensing under the Apache 
>license is completely acceptible.  The main criteria used when selecting a license 
>three years ago was that Tapestry be open source and reusable even in proprietary 
>software, and both licenses ensure that.
> 
> In order to spur discussions, I've worked through the list of criteria and warning 
>signs (as per http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html).  Pardon the use of 
>third person in reference to myself (it seemed appropriate for prose that will likely 
>be cut and pasted frequently).
> 
> Criteria
> 
> Meritocracy:  Tapestry is currently a benign dictatorship, but it has been Howard 
>Lewis Ship's intention, even prior to considering a move to Jakarta, to organize 
>around more democratic principals.
> 
> Community:  Tapestry has a modest, but very active community, centered around a 
>mailing list (approx. 170 members) and the Tapestry Wiki 
>(http://tapestry.sf.net/wiki).  The Tapestry mailing list has an exceptionally good 
>signal-to-noise ratio; discussions typically revolve around planning new extensions 
>to the framework, creating new components and documentation, and diagnosing developer 
>issues.
> 
> Core Developers.  The principal developer for the life of the project is Howard 
>Lewis Ship, he will continue his involvement with Tapestry indefinitely.  Richard 
>Lewis-Shell and Mind Bridge are frequent contributors of components and bug fixes.  
>Neil Clayton and Malcolm Edgar provide some code and significant amounts of 
>documentation.  Geoff Longman has created an excellent plugin for the Eclipse IDE (as 
>a separate project).  Several other developers have contributed bugs fixes, 
>components or documentation in the past.
> 
> Alignment:  Tapestry makes use of the ORO, commons-lang and commons-logging packages 
>internally.
> 
> Scope:  Tapestry is entirely a server-side framework, well aligned with the overall 
>goals of the Jakarta project.
> 
> Warning Signs
> 
> Orphaned products.  Tapestry is far from orphaned, it was originally conceived and 
>executed specifically as an open-source project.
> 
> Inexperience:  Howard Lewis Ship has been coding, documenting, mentoring and 
>managing this open source project for nearly three years.
> 
> Homogeneous Developers:  All of the committers listed above came to the project 
>entirely through appreciation of its qualities (none are known to Howard Lewis Ship 
>except through Tapestry); representatives from Canada, England, Australia and New 
>Zealand are included; other contributors represent South America and Asia (no records 
>have been kept on contributor's country of origin).  This is just the opposite of the 
>"smoke filled room".
> 
> Reliance on Salaried Developers.  Tapestry is largely developed during free time. 
>Many contributions are developed by consultants to address specific needs of their 
>clients, then modularized and provided back to the community (for example, Geoff is 
>developing a workflow management subsystem for Tapestry that may be released into the 
>framework proper when completed).  Increasingly, developers are finishing projects 
>with Tapestry and contributing components created for those projects back into the 
>framework.
> 
> No ties to other Apache Products:  As stated above, Tapestry makes use of the ORO 
>and commons packages and has numerous places where greater integration with Jakarta 
>could occur.  It is servlet container agnostic, working well with Tomcat, Jetty, 
>Resin and others.
> 
> Fascination with Apache Brand:  Tapestry has been, and always will be an open-source 
>project.
> 
> Overlap with Turbine
> 
> Turbine has a similar model to Tapestry, but uses more levels of abstraction 
>(Layout, Module and Navigation where Tapestry simply has Component).  Turbine 
>provides more choices for rendering responses, whereas Tapestry supports only its own 
>HTML template format.
> 
> The focus of the two projects is somewhat divergent.  Turbine is a service-oriented 
>where Tapestry is component-oriented.  Turbine provides a larger toolkit (in the form 
>of services) for aspects of the application not related directly to the presentation 
>layer.  Tapestry provides more flexibility and power in the presentation layer but 
>doesn't provide any other services (such as scheduling, database access, security, 
>etc.).
> 
> Many Tapestry developers are using Tapestry for the presentation layer, but 
>leveraging the many Turbine services (especially Torque).
> 
> Summary
> 
> Tapestry is a mature, powerful framework whose focus aligns well with the overall 
>scope of the Jakarta project.  Both Tapestry and Jakarta would be well served by 
>moving Tapestry under the Jakarta umbrella.
> 
> --
> Howard Lewis Ship
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://tapestry.sf.net
> 
> 
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