Log4j is not leaving. It is simply moving to a new room in the house,
a room with a different label but still located within the same house.
As any house, this house offers protection and comfort to its
inhabitants. It is a place where developers can unleash their creative
powers onto the world. But this house is unique in its degree of openness
and tolerance. Apache is a great place to be regardless of the room
you chose.

As for log4j, its developers will continue to be involved with
Jakarta. Many of us use Jakarta products in our daily work. Moreover,
without the software contained in Jakarta, there wouldn't be much use
for log4j.

So there are no goodbyes to be said, we are just next door. No need to
put on shoes, you can hang on to your slippers. Our door is open, you
don't have to knock when you come in.

At 07:23 AM 12/20/2003 -0500, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:

On Dec 19, 2003, at 3:33 PM, Costin Manolache wrote:

Ted Husted :


I agreed w/ every word from Costin.

And look what's happening with logging: Now that it's a TLP, they are bringing-in the various Log4J compatibles. Now, there can be one Apache logging project serving every platform. That's community-building!

Is logkit included in the logging TLP ? What about commons-logging ?

I agree with you that the logging TLP does define a community ( just like jakarta or httpd ). It's a separate PMC bringing togheter different codebases and people.

It remains to be seen if log4j as a TLP will be better than log4j as part of jakarta. There are plenty of TLPs - like apache-commons - that
don't seem to be much better than sub-projects like jakarta-commons.

Agreed. JC is a vibrant sub-project with ties to may Jakarta sub-projects. I think that important and valuable. I think log4j will do fine, and they can always come back. It's not clear what kind of synergy the log4* projects will bring together, but will be interesting to watch.

I had such mixed emotions about log4j leaving, as I think it's going to take a bit of our community away. On the other hand, I support the freedom of the log4j community to choose it's own path, and that wins out with me.


Geir Magnusson Jr                                   203-247-1713(m)

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