Etc argument that geo research raises risks of inaction on emissions is credible and can't be ignored - even if people may argue it's wrong.
If my research project involved the development and testing of nuclear weapons, I'd think it proper to have ethics and social science support when it was assessed, as its very existence is a game changer. Etc will not shut up if technocrats make decisions behind closed doors, even if these aren't policy decisions. Lock outs are not smart, imo The perception that reports are policy is also non trivial. We would be naive to assume others won't take that stance. We should learn from the past. Even today, the huge potential of genetics is held back by the history of hubris and recklessness of the eugenics movement Let's not make the same mistakes again. A On 16 Jun 2011 23:19, "Alvia Gaskill" <[email protected]> wrote: > The IPCC meeting as I understand it, is simply to consider the efficacy of > some of the proposed technological alternatives to emissions reductions, > i.e., geoengineering. It is not to adopt or endorse action plans based on > them. The IPCC has held workshops and published reports on the subject of > climate change for nearly 20 years and I don't think it has been their > policy or should it be to have every meeting vetted or overseen by people > from outside the discipline being considered. > > Would you like for example, to have someone from the philosophy department > at your local university "sit in" on every discussion you have on > development of a research tool? Oh, this could have far reaching > implications. Better get the ethics people to sign off on this first. EPA > doesn't do this. I am getting ready to review SBIRs again and I don't think > that it's necessary to have anyone from ETC or the Guardian drop by to make > sure I don't ignore the intergenerational implications of the X technology. > That's for later. > > There have been more than ample opportunities for the non science > contributors to make their case against geoengineering and they have already > received a disproportionate share of the attention as well as funding. The > recent meeting in the UK, the Asilomar conference and most recently, Ken's > wrongheaded hand wringing conclusion that the IPCC meeting needs greater > transparency just makes the problem worse. There's an old saying that you > shouldn't feed stray animals because it will just encourage them to come > back for more and bring some friends. Feeding ETC a steady diet of outrage > is just what they want. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrew Lockley" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Cc: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 5:25 > Subject: Re: [geo] HOME/ETC Group Targets IPCC > > > Suggested wording, for amendment and endorsement. > > A > > We the undersigned represent a selection of the scientists, engineers > and social & policy experts involved in the development of > geoengineering and its governance. We write with frustration at the > sentiments expressed in the recent letter sent by ETC et al to the > press and IPCC. As a result, we would like to express the following > views on the IPCC's process on geoengineering, and more generally: > > 1) We do not propose geoengineering as a substitute for emissions > cuts, and never have done. > 2) We believe that research demonstrates that emissions cuts are > necessary, but may not be sufficient to control dangerous climate > change. > 3) We note that several geoengineering schemes have been proposed > which appear to be workable, but that we currently lack the research > necessary to determine the full extent of any role they may play in > the future control of global warming. > 4) We fear the deployment in emergency of poorly tested geoengineering > techniques > 5) We argue for the proper funding and testing of possible > geoengineering technologies, in order to better understand them > 6) We note that, despite the lack of clear geoengineering solutions > available for deployment at present, efforts to curtail emissions have > thus far achieved little or nothing. As such, we believe that further > research will not in itself raise climate risks due to any perceived > panacea which the existence of the technology may wrongly appear to > offer. > > Nevertheless, we note the the IPCCs consideration of this issue > represents a departure from its traditional pure science remit. We > argue therefore for greater transparency of the process, the inclusion > of experts from social policy fields in the process, and the opening > up of sessions to external observers, notably civil society groups. > > Yours sincerely > > > On 16 June 2011 09:39, Stephen Salter <[email protected]> wrote: >> Hi All >> >> Pat Mooney of the ETC group repeats much of the IPCC letter in today's >> Guardian see >> >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jun/15/geo-engineering-climate-consideration >> >> Can we get the Guardian to print Ken's list of points? >> >> Stephen >> >> Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design >> Institute for Energy Systems >> School of Engineering >> Mayfield Road >> University of Edinburgh EH9 3JL >> Scotland >> Tel +44 131 650 5704 >> Mobile 07795 203 195 >> www.see.ed.ac.uk/~shs >> >> On 16/06/2011 08:21, Andrew Lockley wrote: >> >> You'll have to question them directly >> >> I suggest that we circulate a response to each - likely the same as sent >> to >> the ipcc >> >> A >> >> On 16 Jun 2011 02:54, <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Interesting list of groups. I will bet $100 that if each group were to be >>> contacted, that we would find they have no knowledge of this ETC effort. >>> I >>> just randomly picked one... "Institute for Social Ecology" and searched >>> their website for "Geoengineering". This is what I >>> >>> found.... http://www.social-ecology.org/?s=geoengineering&submit.x=10&submit.y=9 >>> No Result >>> >>> So, I tried another...."Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy. USA" >>> and again searched their site for GE. Here is what I found >>> http://www.social-ecology.org/?s=geoengineering&submit.x=10&submit.y=9No >>> Result >>> >>> Being and hard headed SOUTHERN fellow, I tried one >>> more....."International >>> Presentation Association of the Sisters of the Presentation, USA" Here is >>> the search result http://www.presentationsisters.org/search-results.php >>> AGAIN NO RESULT!!! >>> >>> Ok, I am upping the bet to $1,000. Any takers? >>> >>> >>> >>> On , "Rau, Greg" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> From the letter: >>> >>>> "The likelihood that geoengineering will provide a safe, lasting, >>>> democratic and peaceful solution to the climate crisis is non-existent." >>> >>>> [please fill us in on the safer, longer lasting, more democratic, and >>>> peaceful solutions, and therefore why further evaluation of GE isn't >>>> needed.] >>> >>> >>> >>>> "Asking a group of geoengineering scientists if more research should be >>>> done on the topic is like asking a group of hungry bears if they would >>>> like honey. Their predictable answer should be viewed with skepticism. >>>> At >>>> the same time, independent organizations, which have devoted years of >>>> critical research to geoengineering, are not allowed to participate, >>>> even >>>> as observers." >>> >>>> [ glad someone has been able to do years of critical research on GE. >>>> Please transparently provide results, as well as evaluations of the >>>> better, non-GE solutions] >>> >>> >>> >>>> "...we urge the IPCC to ensure that a variety of civil society voices is >>>> heard, understood, and taken into account, particularly from the global >>>> South. This will provide much-needed common sense and a global >>>> perspective, as well as a counterpoint to the more prominent and extreme >>>> positions of some Northern scientists engaged in geoengineering >>>> research." >>> >>>> [didn't realize that there is a north/south divide here. I thought >>>> global >>>> warming and ocean acidification were equal opportunity impactors. Any >>>> Southerners on the GE list? care to weigh in?] >>> >>> >>> >>>> Interesting signatories* of this letter, including the African >>>> Biodiversity Network, Africa, international World Rainforest Movement, >>>> Cook Islands Climate Action Network (CICAN), Rarotonga, Cook Islands, >>>> Island Sustainability Alliance CIS Inc (ISACI) Rarotonga, COOK ISLANDS, >>>> Rainforest Rescue – Rettet den Regenwald, Germany, Sisters of Charity of >>>> Nazareth Congregational Leadership, United States. Certainly we are all >>>> for biodiveristy, rainforests, Pacific islands, charity, etc. Why run >>>> the >>>> risk of losing them by not considering all of our options for preserving >>>> them? >>> >>> >>> >>>> I've learned that effective political messaging requires 3 things: a >>>> victim, a villain, and an opportunity. While HOME et al. certainly have >>>> the first two covered, they offer no alternative opportunities for >>>> saving >>>> the world. That's truly dangerous. Let's keep all of our options open. >>> >>>> -Greg >>> >>>> * >>> >>>> African Biodiversity Network, Africa, international >>> >>> >>> >>>> ATALC – Amigos de la Tierra America Latina y Caribe, Latin America, >>>> international >>> >>> >>> >>>> Coordinadora Andina de Organizaciones Indígenas -CAOI, Andean, >>>> international >>> >>> >>> >>>> ETC group, international >>> >>> >>> >>>> Friends of the Earth International >>> >>> >>> >>>> Global Forest Coalition, International >>> >>> >>> >>>> Global Justice Ecology Project, International >>> >>> >>> >>>> GRAIN, International >>> >>> >>> >>>> Land is Life, international network of indigenous communities and >>>> organizations >>> >>> >>> >>>> Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate, International >>> >>> >>> >>>> International Center for Technology Assessment (ICTA), US / >>>> international >>> >>> >>> >>>> OILWATCH Sudamérica, international >>> >>> >>> >>>> Pan African Climate Justice Alliance (PACJA), Africa, International >>> >>> >>> >>>> RALLT, Red por una América Latina libre de Transgénicos, Latin America, >>>> international >>> >>> >>> >>>> Red Latinoamericana contra los Monocultivos de Árboles (RECOMA), Latin >>>> America, international >>> >>> >>> >>>> Redmanglar Internacional, Guatemala, international >>> >>> >>> >>>> Temple of Understanding US / international >>> >>> >>> >>>> Third World Network, international >>> >>> >>> >>>> Via Campesina, International Peasant Movement, international >>> >>> >>> >>>> World Future Council Foundation, international >>> >>> >>> >>>> World Rainforest Movement / Mov. Mundial de Bosques, international >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Aboriginal Legal Rights Movement Inc, Australia >>> >>> >>> >>>> Acción Ecológica, Ecuador >>> >>> >>> >>>> Acción por la Biodiversidad, Argentina >>> >>> >>> >>>> ADEID, Action pour un Développement Équitable, Intégré et Durable, >>>> Cameroon >>> >>> >>> >>>> African Centre for Biosafety, South Africa >>> >>> >>> >>>> Alliance Sud, Switzerland >>> >>> >>> >>>> Amigos da Terra, Brazil >>> >>> >>> >>>> Amigu di Tera FoE Curaçao, Brazil >>> >>> >>> >>>> APUNA, Andhra Pradesh United Nations Association, India >>> >>> >>> >>>> Asociación ANDES, Cusco, Perú >>> >>> >>> >>>> Bio WILD Foundation, Biodiversity and Wildlife Integration for >>>> Livelihood >>>> Development, INDIA >>> >>> >>> >>>> Biofuelwatch, UK / US >>> >>> >>> >>>> Casifop, México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ceccam, México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Cenami, México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Censat Agua Viva, Colombia >>> >>> >>> >>>> Center for Cultural Interchange and Greenheart, USA >>> >>> >>> >>>> Centre for Civil Society Environmental Justice Project, Durban, South >>>> Africa >>> >>> >>> >>>> Centro Ecológico IPÉ, Brazil >>> >>> >>> >>>> Centro Ecologista Renacer, Argentina >>> >>> >>> >>>> Centro Fray Julián Garcés de Derechos Humanos y Desarrollo Comunitario, >>>> México >>> >>> >>> >>>> CESTA, Amigos de la Tierra El Salvador >>> >>> >>> >>>> COECOCEIBA-AT Costa Rica >>> >>> >>> >>>> Colectivo COA, México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Colectivo Voces Ecológicas COVEC, Panamá >>> >>> >>> >>>> Consejo de Ejidos y Comunidades Opositores a la Presa La Parota (CECOP), >>>> México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Cook Islands Climate Action Network (CICAN), Rarotonga, Cook Islands >>> >>> >>> >>>> Cooperativa por un Ambiente Biodiverso y Sustentable, CAMBIOS, SC de >>>> RL,México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Corner House, UK >>> >>> >>> >>>> Cuarto Menguante Aliento por la conservación AC, México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Dewan Adat Papua, New Guinea >>> >>> >>> >>>> Dogwood Alliance – Asheville, NC, USA >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ecological Society of the Philippines >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ecologistas en Acción, Spain >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ecomunidades, red ecologista autónoma de la cuenca de México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Educación AT Argentina >>> >>> >>> >>>> CEIBA AT, Guatemala >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ethiopian Society or Consumer Protection, Ethiopia >>> >>> >>> >>>> Fair Coop (Fair Trade), Italy >>> >>> >>> >>>> Family Farm Defenders, Madison, Wi, USA >>> >>> >>> >>>> FASE, Brazil >>> >>> >>> >>>> Fondation Sciences Citoyennes, France >>> >>> >>> >>>> Frente de Pueblos en Defensa de la Tierra y el Agua, Región Malinche, >>>> México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Friends of the Earth US >>> >>> >>> >>>> Food First, US >>> >>> >>> >>>> Fundación Heifer-Ecuador >>> >>> >>> >>>> Fundación por el Futuro, Madrid, España >>> >>> >>> >>>> Fundación Promotora de Cooperativas – FUNPROCOOP, El Salvador >>> >>> >>> >>>> Gaia Foundation, UK >>> >>> >>> >>>> GMWatch, UK >>> >>> >>> >>>> Greenovation Center, China >>> >>> >>> >>>> Grupo SEMILLAS,Colombia >>> >>> >>> >>>> Grupo Thunhupha, Bolivia >>> >>> >>> >>>> IBON International, Philippines >>> >>> >>> >>>> Indian biodiversity forum, India >>> >>> >>> >>>> Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy, USA >>> >>> >>> >>>> Institute of Science in Society, Mae-Wan Ho, UK >>> >>> >>> >>>> Instituto de Estudios Ecologistas del Tercer Mundo, Ecuador. >>> >>> >>> >>>> International Presentation Association of the Sisters of the >>>> Presentation, USA >>> >>> >>> >>>> Institute for Social Ecology, USA >>> >>> >>> >>>> ITC, Comité Intertribal, Brazil >>> >>> >>> >>>> Island Sustainability Alliance CIS Inc (ISACI) Rarotonga, COOK ISLANDS >>> >>> >>> >>>> Movimiento Madre Tierra, Honduras >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ka Lahui Hawai'i >>> >>> >>> >>>> Kiee Lu'u SSS México >>> >>> >>> >>>> L'Union Paysanne, Canada >>> >>> >>> >>>> La Asamblea Veracruzana de Iniciativa y Defensa Ambiental (LAVIDA), >>>> México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Mangrove Action Project, USA >>> >>> >>> >>>> Movimiento de la Juventud Kuna, Panamá >>> >>> >>> >>>> Movimiento por la Vida y la Equidad Campesina, El Salvador >>> >>> >>> >>>> Na Koa Ikaika KaLahui Hawaii >>> >>> >>> >>>> National Indigenous Peoples of Solomons Islands (NIPS), Solomon Islands >>> >>> >>> >>>> National Toxics Network Inc. Coordinator, Australia >>> >>> >>> >>>> New World Society For Friendship Cooperation And Peace, India >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ngati Hine tribe of the Bay Of Islands, New Zealand >>> >>> >>> >>>> NusaAlifuru of Maluku (Pacific, considered Indonesian) >>> >>> >>> >>>> Observatorio Latinoamericano de Conflictos Ambientales -OLCA, Chile >>> >>> >>> >>>> OFRANEH, Organizacion Fraternal Negra Hondureña, Honduras >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ole Siosiomaga Society Incorporated (OLSSI), SAMOA >>> >>> >>> >>>> Organización de Agricultores Biológicos AC, México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Philippinenbuero eV im Asienhaus; Germany >>> >>> >>> >>>> Proceso de Comunidades Negras de Colombia >>> >>> >>> >>>> Rainforest Rescue – Rettet den Regenwald, Germany >>> >>> >>> >>>> RAPA NUI PARLIAMENT (Polinesia) >>> >>> >>> >>>> Red de Coordinación en Biodiversidad, Costa Rica >>> >>> >>> >>>> Rede Brazileira de Pesquisas em Nanotecnologia – RENANOSOMA, Brazil >>> >>> >>> >>>> REDES AT, Uruguay >>> >>> >>> >>>> SAFEAGE, Observatory, Cape Town, South Africa >>> >>> >>> >>>> Salva la Selva, Spain >>> >>> >>> >>>> Savia, Escuela de Pensamiento Ecologista, Guatemala >>> >>> >>> >>>> SEARICE, Philippines >>> >>> >>> >>>> Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Congregational Leadership, United States >>> >>> >>> >>>> Sunray Harvesters, India >>> >>> >>> >>>> SWISSAID, Switzerland >>> >>> >>> >>>> Seeds Action Network, Germany >>> >>> >>> >>>> Terra de Direitos, Human Rights Organization- Brazil >>> >>> >>> >>>> Terra-1530, Moldova >>> >>> >>> >>>> Texas Drought Project, USA >>> >>> >>> >>>> The Development Fund, Norway >>> >>> >>> >>>> The Enviro Show, Western Massachusetts/USA >>> >>> >>> >>>> The Koani Foundation, Lihue, Kauai, Hawaii >>> >>> >>> >>>> The Noordhoek Environmental Action Group, Noordhoek, Cape Town, South >>>> Africa >>> >>> >>> >>>> Un Salto de Vida, AC, El Salto, Jalisco, México >>> >>> >>> >>>> US Federation for Middle East Peace (USFMEP), USA >>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>> >>>> From: [email protected] [[email protected]] >>>> On Behalf Of Josh Horton [[email protected]] >>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 5:08 AM >>> >>>> To: geoengineering >>> >>>> Subject: [geo] HOME/ETC Group Targets IPCC >>> >>> >>> >>>> Here is the latest salvo from the HOME campaign, this time targeting >>> >>>> the IPCC expert group on geoengineering meeting in Peru: >>> >>> >>> >>>> http://www.handsoffmotherearth.org/2011/06/lettertoipcc/ >>> >>> >>> >>>> Josh Horton >>> >>>> [email protected] >>> >>>> http://geoengineeringpolitics.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "geoengineering" group. >>> >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]. >>> >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "geoengineering" group. >>> >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]. >>> >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "geoengineering" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "geoengineering" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. >> >> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in >> Scotland, with registration number SC005336. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "geoengineering" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. >> >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "geoengineering" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. 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