Dear Alvia--Legally, IPCC is organized by the UN, but it really answers to all of us, at least it needs to if it is to be effective.
Mike On 6/17/11 10:42 AM, "Alvia Gaskill" <[email protected]> wrote: > And lest you forget, ETC blew off Asilomar (as did Ken) rather > hypocritically, citing funding reasons when that had nothing to do with it. > So they had an opportunity to participate in the largest gathering devoted > to governance and callously passed it up. I would also note that none of > the mainstream environmental groups are making the absurd demands of ETC > regarding the Peru meeting. Where is Greenpeace? EDF? NRDC? Sierra Club? > World Wildlife Fund? By their silence, they endorse letting the scientists > do their job without the circus atmosphere that ETC, the Westboro Baptist > Church of modern technology is sure to bring. And BTW, Mike, the IPCC is > not a city council. It answers to the UN, not whoever shows up with an axe > to grind. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alvia Gaskill" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Cc: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:19 > Subject: Re: [geo] HOME/ETC Group Targets IPCC > > > The IPCC meeting as I understand it, is simply to consider the efficacy of > some of the proposed technological alternatives to emissions reductions, > i.e., geoengineering. It is not to adopt or endorse action plans based on > them. The IPCC has held workshops and published reports on the subject of > climate change for nearly 20 years and I don't think it has been their > policy or should it be to have every meeting vetted or overseen by people > from outside the discipline being considered. > > Would you like for example, to have someone from the philosophy department > at your local university "sit in" on every discussion you have on > development of a research tool? Oh, this could have far reaching > implications. Better get the ethics people to sign off on this first. EPA > doesn't do this. I am getting ready to review SBIRs again and I don't think > that it's necessary to have anyone from ETC or the Guardian drop by to make > sure I don't ignore the intergenerational implications of the X technology. > That's for later. > > There have been more than ample opportunities for the non science > contributors to make their case against geoengineering and they have already > received a disproportionate share of the attention as well as funding. The > recent meeting in the UK, the Asilomar conference and most recently, Ken's > wrongheaded hand wringing conclusion that the IPCC meeting needs greater > transparency just makes the problem worse. There's an old saying that you > shouldn't feed stray animals because it will just encourage them to come > back for more and bring some friends. Feeding ETC a steady diet of outrage > is just what they want. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrew Lockley" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Cc: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 5:25 > Subject: Re: [geo] HOME/ETC Group Targets IPCC > > > Suggested wording, for amendment and endorsement. > > A > > We the undersigned represent a selection of the scientists, engineers > and social & policy experts involved in the development of > geoengineering and its governance. We write with frustration at the > sentiments expressed in the recent letter sent by ETC et al to the > press and IPCC. As a result, we would like to express the following > views on the IPCC's process on geoengineering, and more generally: > > 1) We do not propose geoengineering as a substitute for emissions > cuts, and never have done. > 2) We believe that research demonstrates that emissions cuts are > necessary, but may not be sufficient to control dangerous climate > change. > 3) We note that several geoengineering schemes have been proposed > which appear to be workable, but that we currently lack the research > necessary to determine the full extent of any role they may play in > the future control of global warming. > 4) We fear the deployment in emergency of poorly tested geoengineering > techniques > 5) We argue for the proper funding and testing of possible > geoengineering technologies, in order to better understand them > 6) We note that, despite the lack of clear geoengineering solutions > available for deployment at present, efforts to curtail emissions have > thus far achieved little or nothing. As such, we believe that further > research will not in itself raise climate risks due to any perceived > panacea which the existence of the technology may wrongly appear to > offer. > > Nevertheless, we note the the IPCCs consideration of this issue > represents a departure from its traditional pure science remit. We > argue therefore for greater transparency of the process, the inclusion > of experts from social policy fields in the process, and the opening > up of sessions to external observers, notably civil society groups. > > Yours sincerely > > > On 16 June 2011 09:39, Stephen Salter <[email protected]> wrote: >> Hi All >> >> Pat Mooney of the ETC group repeats much of the IPCC letter in today's >> Guardian see >> >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jun/15/geo-engineering-climate-con >> sideration >> >> Can we get the Guardian to print Ken's list of points? >> >> Stephen >> >> Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design >> Institute for Energy Systems >> School of Engineering >> Mayfield Road >> University of Edinburgh EH9 3JL >> Scotland >> Tel +44 131 650 5704 >> Mobile 07795 203 195 >> www.see.ed.ac.uk/~shs >> >> On 16/06/2011 08:21, Andrew Lockley wrote: >> >> You'll have to question them directly >> >> I suggest that we circulate a response to each - likely the same as sent >> to >> the ipcc >> >> A >> >> On 16 Jun 2011 02:54, <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Interesting list of groups. I will bet $100 that if each group were to be >>> contacted, that we would find they have no knowledge of this ETC effort. >>> I >>> just randomly picked one... "Institute for Social Ecology" and searched >>> their website for "Geoengineering". This is what I >>> >>> found....http://www.social-ecology.org/?s=geoengineering&submit.x=10&submit. >>> y=9 >>> No Result >>> >>> So, I tried another...."Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy. USA" >>> and again searched their site for GE. Here is what I found >>> http://www.social-ecology.org/?s=geoengineering&submit.x=10&submit.y=9 No >>> Result >>> >>> Being and hard headed SOUTHERN fellow, I tried one >>> more....."International >>> Presentation Association of the Sisters of the Presentation, USA" Here is >>> the search result http://www.presentationsisters.org/search-results.php >>> AGAIN NO RESULT!!! >>> >>> Ok, I am upping the bet to $1,000. Any takers? >>> >>> >>> >>> On , "Rau, Greg" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> From the letter: >>> >>>> "The likelihood that geoengineering will provide a safe, lasting, >>>> democratic and peaceful solution to the climate crisis is non-existent." >>> >>>> [please fill us in on the safer, longer lasting, more democratic, and >>>> peaceful solutions, and therefore why further evaluation of GE isn't >>>> needed.] >>> >>> >>> >>>> "Asking a group of geoengineering scientists if more research should be >>>> done on the topic is like asking a group of hungry bears if they would >>>> like honey. Their predictable answer should be viewed with skepticism. >>>> At >>>> the same time, independent organizations, which have devoted years of >>>> critical research to geoengineering, are not allowed to participate, >>>> even >>>> as observers." >>> >>>> [ glad someone has been able to do years of critical research on GE. >>>> Please transparently provide results, as well as evaluations of the >>>> better, non-GE solutions] >>> >>> >>> >>>> "...we urge the IPCC to ensure that a variety of civil society voices is >>>> heard, understood, and taken into account, particularly from the global >>>> South. This will provide much-needed common sense and a global >>>> perspective, as well as a counterpoint to the more prominent and extreme >>>> positions of some Northern scientists engaged in geoengineering >>>> research." >>> >>>> [didn't realize that there is a north/south divide here. I thought >>>> global >>>> warming and ocean acidification were equal opportunity impactors. Any >>>> Southerners on the GE list? care to weigh in?] >>> >>> >>> >>>> Interesting signatories* of this letter, including the African >>>> Biodiversity Network, Africa, international World Rainforest Movement, >>>> Cook Islands Climate Action Network (CICAN), Rarotonga, Cook Islands, >>>> Island Sustainability Alliance CIS Inc (ISACI) Rarotonga, COOK ISLANDS, >>>> Rainforest Rescue Rettet den Regenwald, Germany, Sisters of Charity of >>>> Nazareth Congregational Leadership, United States. Certainly we are all >>>> for biodiveristy, rainforests, Pacific islands, charity, etc. Why run >>>> the >>>> risk of losing them by not considering all of our options for preserving >>>> them? >>> >>> >>> >>>> I've learned that effective political messaging requires 3 things: a >>>> victim, a villain, and an opportunity. While HOME et al. certainly have >>>> the first two covered, they offer no alternative opportunities for >>>> saving >>>> the world. That's truly dangerous. Let's keep all of our options open. >>> >>>> -Greg >>> >>>> * >>> >>>> African Biodiversity Network, Africa, international >>> >>> >>> >>>> ATALC Amigos de la Tierra America Latina y Caribe, Latin America, >>>> international >>> >>> >>> >>>> Coordinadora Andina de Organizaciones Indígenas -CAOI, Andean, >>>> international >>> >>> >>> >>>> ETC group, international >>> >>> >>> >>>> Friends of the Earth International >>> >>> >>> >>>> Global Forest Coalition, International >>> >>> >>> >>>> Global Justice Ecology Project, International >>> >>> >>> >>>> GRAIN, International >>> >>> >>> >>>> Land is Life, international network of indigenous communities and >>>> organizations >>> >>> >>> >>>> Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate, International >>> >>> >>> >>>> International Center for Technology Assessment (ICTA), US / >>>> international >>> >>> >>> >>>> OILWATCH Sudamérica, international >>> >>> >>> >>>> Pan African Climate Justice Alliance (PACJA), Africa, International >>> >>> >>> >>>> RALLT, Red por una América Latina libre de Transgénicos, Latin America, >>>> international >>> >>> >>> >>>> Red Latinoamericana contra los Monocultivos de Árboles (RECOMA), Latin >>>> America, international >>> >>> >>> >>>> Redmanglar Internacional, Guatemala, international >>> >>> >>> >>>> Temple of Understanding US / international >>> >>> >>> >>>> Third World Network, international >>> >>> >>> >>>> Via Campesina, International Peasant Movement, international >>> >>> >>> >>>> World Future Council Foundation, international >>> >>> >>> >>>> World Rainforest Movement / Mov. Mundial de Bosques, international >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Aboriginal Legal Rights Movement Inc, Australia >>> >>> >>> >>>> Acción Ecológica, Ecuador >>> >>> >>> >>>> Acción por la Biodiversidad, Argentina >>> >>> >>> >>>> ADEID, Action pour un Développement Équitable, Intégré et Durable, >>>> Cameroon >>> >>> >>> >>>> African Centre for Biosafety, South Africa >>> >>> >>> >>>> Alliance Sud, Switzerland >>> >>> >>> >>>> Amigos da Terra, Brazil >>> >>> >>> >>>> Amigu di Tera FoE Curaçao, Brazil >>> >>> >>> >>>> APUNA, Andhra Pradesh United Nations Association, India >>> >>> >>> >>>> Asociación ANDES, Cusco, Perú >>> >>> >>> >>>> Bio WILD Foundation, Biodiversity and Wildlife Integration for >>>> Livelihood >>>> Development, INDIA >>> >>> >>> >>>> Biofuelwatch, UK / US >>> >>> >>> >>>> Casifop, México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ceccam, México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Cenami, México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Censat Agua Viva, Colombia >>> >>> >>> >>>> Center for Cultural Interchange and Greenheart, USA >>> >>> >>> >>>> Centre for Civil Society Environmental Justice Project, Durban, South >>>> Africa >>> >>> >>> >>>> Centro Ecológico IPÉ, Brazil >>> >>> >>> >>>> Centro Ecologista Renacer, Argentina >>> >>> >>> >>>> Centro Fray Julián Garcés de Derechos Humanos y Desarrollo Comunitario, >>>> México >>> >>> >>> >>>> CESTA, Amigos de la Tierra El Salvador >>> >>> >>> >>>> COECOCEIBA-AT Costa Rica >>> >>> >>> >>>> Colectivo COA, México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Colectivo Voces Ecológicas COVEC, Panamá >>> >>> >>> >>>> Consejo de Ejidos y Comunidades Opositores a la Presa La Parota (CECOP), >>>> México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Cook Islands Climate Action Network (CICAN), Rarotonga, Cook Islands >>> >>> >>> >>>> Cooperativa por un Ambiente Biodiverso y Sustentable, CAMBIOS, SC de >>>> RL,México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Corner House, UK >>> >>> >>> >>>> Cuarto Menguante Aliento por la conservación AC, México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Dewan Adat Papua, New Guinea >>> >>> >>> >>>> Dogwood Alliance Asheville, NC, USA >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ecological Society of the Philippines >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ecologistas en Acción, Spain >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ecomunidades, red ecologista autónoma de la cuenca de México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Educación AT Argentina >>> >>> >>> >>>> CEIBA AT, Guatemala >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ethiopian Society or Consumer Protection, Ethiopia >>> >>> >>> >>>> Fair Coop (Fair Trade), Italy >>> >>> >>> >>>> Family Farm Defenders, Madison, Wi, USA >>> >>> >>> >>>> FASE, Brazil >>> >>> >>> >>>> Fondation Sciences Citoyennes, France >>> >>> >>> >>>> Frente de Pueblos en Defensa de la Tierra y el Agua, Región Malinche, >>>> México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Friends of the Earth US >>> >>> >>> >>>> Food First, US >>> >>> >>> >>>> Fundación Heifer-Ecuador >>> >>> >>> >>>> Fundación por el Futuro, Madrid, España >>> >>> >>> >>>> Fundación Promotora de Cooperativas FUNPROCOOP, El Salvador >>> >>> >>> >>>> Gaia Foundation, UK >>> >>> >>> >>>> GMWatch, UK >>> >>> >>> >>>> Greenovation Center, China >>> >>> >>> >>>> Grupo SEMILLAS,Colombia >>> >>> >>> >>>> Grupo Thunhupha, Bolivia >>> >>> >>> >>>> IBON International, Philippines >>> >>> >>> >>>> Indian biodiversity forum, India >>> >>> >>> >>>> Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy, USA >>> >>> >>> >>>> Institute of Science in Society, Mae-Wan Ho, UK >>> >>> >>> >>>> Instituto de Estudios Ecologistas del Tercer Mundo, Ecuador. >>> >>> >>> >>>> International Presentation Association of the Sisters of the >>>> Presentation, USA >>> >>> >>> >>>> Institute for Social Ecology, USA >>> >>> >>> >>>> ITC, Comité Intertribal, Brazil >>> >>> >>> >>>> Island Sustainability Alliance CIS Inc (ISACI) Rarotonga, COOK ISLANDS >>> >>> >>> >>>> Movimiento Madre Tierra, Honduras >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ka Lahui Hawai'i >>> >>> >>> >>>> Kiee Lu'u SSS México >>> >>> >>> >>>> L'Union Paysanne, Canada >>> >>> >>> >>>> La Asamblea Veracruzana de Iniciativa y Defensa Ambiental (LAVIDA), >>>> México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Mangrove Action Project, USA >>> >>> >>> >>>> Movimiento de la Juventud Kuna, Panamá >>> >>> >>> >>>> Movimiento por la Vida y la Equidad Campesina, El Salvador >>> >>> >>> >>>> Na Koa Ikaika KaLahui Hawaii >>> >>> >>> >>>> National Indigenous Peoples of Solomons Islands (NIPS), Solomon Islands >>> >>> >>> >>>> National Toxics Network Inc. Coordinator, Australia >>> >>> >>> >>>> New World Society For Friendship Cooperation And Peace, India >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ngati Hine tribe of the Bay Of Islands, New Zealand >>> >>> >>> >>>> NusaAlifuru of Maluku (Pacific, considered Indonesian) >>> >>> >>> >>>> Observatorio Latinoamericano de Conflictos Ambientales -OLCA, Chile >>> >>> >>> >>>> OFRANEH, Organizacion Fraternal Negra Hondureña, Honduras >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ole Siosiomaga Society Incorporated (OLSSI), SAMOA >>> >>> >>> >>>> Organización de Agricultores Biológicos AC, México >>> >>> >>> >>>> Philippinenbuero eV im Asienhaus; Germany >>> >>> >>> >>>> Proceso de Comunidades Negras de Colombia >>> >>> >>> >>>> Rainforest Rescue Rettet den Regenwald, Germany >>> >>> >>> >>>> RAPA NUI PARLIAMENT (Polinesia) >>> >>> >>> >>>> Red de Coordinación en Biodiversidad, Costa Rica >>> >>> >>> >>>> Rede Brazileira de Pesquisas em Nanotecnologia RENANOSOMA, Brazil >>> >>> >>> >>>> REDES AT, Uruguay >>> >>> >>> >>>> SAFEAGE, Observatory, Cape Town, South Africa >>> >>> >>> >>>> Salva la Selva, Spain >>> >>> >>> >>>> Savia, Escuela de Pensamiento Ecologista, Guatemala >>> >>> >>> >>>> SEARICE, Philippines >>> >>> >>> >>>> Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Congregational Leadership, United States >>> >>> >>> >>>> Sunray Harvesters, India >>> >>> >>> >>>> SWISSAID, Switzerland >>> >>> >>> >>>> Seeds Action Network, Germany >>> >>> >>> >>>> Terra de Direitos, Human Rights Organization- Brazil >>> >>> >>> >>>> Terra-1530, Moldova >>> >>> >>> >>>> Texas Drought Project, USA >>> >>> >>> >>>> The Development Fund, Norway >>> >>> >>> >>>> The Enviro Show, Western Massachusetts/USA >>> >>> >>> >>>> The Koani Foundation, Lihue, Kauai, Hawaii >>> >>> >>> >>>> The Noordhoek Environmental Action Group, Noordhoek, Cape Town, South >>>> Africa >>> >>> >>> >>>> Un Salto de Vida, AC, El Salto, Jalisco, México >>> >>> >>> >>>> US Federation for Middle East Peace (USFMEP), USA >>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>> >>>> From: [email protected] [[email protected]] >>>> On Behalf Of Josh Horton [[email protected]] >>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 5:08 AM >>> >>>> To: geoengineering >>> >>>> Subject: [geo] HOME/ETC Group Targets IPCC >>> >>> >>> >>>> Here is the latest salvo from the HOME campaign, this time targeting >>> >>>> the IPCC expert group on geoengineering meeting in Peru: >>> >>> >>> >>>> http://www.handsoffmotherearth.org/2011/06/lettertoipcc/ >>> >>> >>> >>>> Josh Horton >>> >>>> [email protected] >>> >>>> http://geoengineeringpolitics.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "geoengineering" group. >>> >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]. >>> >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "geoengineering" group. >>> >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]. >>> >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "geoengineering" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "geoengineering" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. >> >> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in >> Scotland, with registration number SC005336. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "geoengineering" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. >> >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. 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