<[EMAIL PROTECTED] ( Marc) (A.) (Lehmann )> writes:

> That is, I think the fundamental flaw. A user interface that works for the
> majority is a pretty idiotic goal. A user interface should work for ALL
> users, and likely should have features to support the majority.

Yeah, of course. If it works for all users, that's even better. Are
you trying to make an argument out of this now?

> So that argument is *completely* and *utterly* bogus, firstly
> because you equate majority==newbies, and secondly because it's not
> a viable goal at all.

So let's see then. The goal is to please you and ignore the majority?
Marc, you have yourself said that you don't care about other users.
Why should we care about you then?

>> The problem is to find out what works best for people. Trying to
>> decide this in an argument among developers is very certainly going
>> to fail.
> I disagree, and I haven't actually seen evidence of that, despite
> hearing that a lot, I don't think developers are somehow worse off
> then users.

Developers are also users. But the same argument holds true for users.
You can't find out facts about a user interface by discussing it. Look
at any discussion out there. It is always a few people who are very
loud at complaining. Are these users representative? No, they aren't.
All the happy users will never join a mailing-list and tell us that
they like the user interface. You will only hear from them if you
actually change something. Then, given that they disagree with that
change, they will suddenly be there, loud and clear. So it should be
clear that it is a waste of time to discuss user interface questions
unless they can be boiled down to some simple rules that everyone can
agree on. But that is not the case here. So, that's why I have made
the offer of organizing a usability test with the goal to gather some
facts on the current design compared to whatever we can come up with
as an alternative. Feel free to ignore that offer. But if you do,
don't expect me to ever discuss user interface issues with you again.

> Yes, the discussion has become a little bit out of bounds for
> gimp-developer again. Just remember that the original problem was the
> attitude of yours with regards to user complaints (or suggestions).

The original problem was you accusing me of ignorance. That has been
proven to be a lie. So please don't continue with it.

> Well, it's not as if this has fundamentally changed till the current
> version.  You seem to relate all the bad user experiences to old
> versions, but that is not true. I based my initial response on
> gtk+-2.6.7, and now used gtk+-2.6.8, which is exactly the version
> you asked people to try.

Still you failed so far to give a detailed and useful description of
your problems. You listed a few things but you never got further than
half a sentence on each of them. I still don't know what your
complaints really are but that you want the text entry back. A useful
complaint includes use cases, describes a certain workflow and
outlines where the current UI gets into your way.

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