Yar are absolutely right, John.And we, who live in Diaspora and not in Goa, cannot complain about the past... In fact, Goans deserve what they have. now.....
Aviso de Confidencialidade Este correio eletrónico, assim como qualquer ficheiro anexo ao mesmo contém informação confidencial e legalmente protegida, exclusivamente dirigida ao destinatário. No caso de haver recebido este correio por erro, requer-se notificar imediatamente deste facto mediante o reenvio à direção eletrónica do remetente e o mesmo deve ser imediatamente apagado; é advertido que qualquer transmissão, cópia ou uso desta informação é proibida; informação protegida pelo *sigilo profissional* contido no art. *113.º do Estatuto da Ordem dos Advogados da República Portuguesa*. Obrigado. Privacy Warning This e-mail and any attachments contain privileged and confidential information and legally protected, intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or use of information within it is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error or without authorization, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete the e-mail from your system; information protected by professional secrecy contained in the Statute of the Bar Association of the Portuguese Republic. Thank you in advance John de Figueiredo <[email protected]> escreveu no dia quinta, 14/12/2023 à(s) 12:56: > Edgar, > It is good when we can learn from the past, correct our errors, and build > a better future. Unfortunately once flowers become concrete, the concrete > does not become flowers again. > John > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 13, 2023, at 4:46 AM, Edgar Valles <[email protected]> wrote: > > > To analyse the past, without nostalgia, is always good... > > Aviso de Confidencialidade > > Este correio eletrónico, assim como qualquer ficheiro anexo ao mesmo > contém informação confidencial e legalmente protegida, exclusivamente > dirigida ao destinatário. No caso de haver recebido este correio por erro, > requer-se notificar imediatamente deste facto mediante o reenvio à direção > eletrónica do remetente e o mesmo deve ser imediatamente apagado; é > advertido que qualquer transmissão, cópia ou uso desta informação é > proibida; informação protegida pelo *sigilo profissional* contido no art. > *113.º > do Estatuto da Ordem dos Advogados da República Portuguesa*. Obrigado. > > Privacy Warning > > This e-mail and any attachments contain privileged and confidential > information and legally protected, intended only for the use of the > addressee(s). If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, you are > hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or use of information > within it is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error or > without authorization, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and > delete the e-mail from your system; information protected by professional > secrecy contained in the Statute of the Bar Association of the Portuguese > Republic. Thank you in advance > > > John de Figueiredo <[email protected]> escreveu no dia terça, > 12/12/2023 à(s) 23:33: > >> Good points, Frederick. >> The geographical argument does not count either. >> Monaco is of the size of 314 acres, with a population a little over >> 36,000, speaking French, and surrounded all 3 sides by France. The third >> side is along the sea just as Goa. But Monaco is an independent nation. >> Bruto da Costa wanted a plebiscite for the Goans to decide on the future >> of Goa. This plebiscite never took place. >> At any rate, if flowers became concrete, this conversation is irrelevant >> because the Goa we are discussing is no more. >> John >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 12, 2023, at 4:02 PM, fredericknoronha <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Something makes me want to disagree with quite a few of the comments >> made, and conclusions drawn, below: >> >> (1) My reading is that Portugal dealt with East Timor in the way it did >> more due to the turmoil at that time in Portugal itself, the Carnation >> Revolution, abrupt change in political direction, etc. Open to correction >> here. >> >> (2) About Goa being a "rich basket", economic studies and other accepted >> analyses suggest otherwise. Salazar could have (rightly) seen a "domino >> effect" starting in Goa. Something that undercut the plank on which his >> ideology was based. Plus, in the Portuguese imagination over centuries, Goa >> meant something rather different. Call this emotional reasons, or whatever >> you wish. >> >> (3) "Indian patience ran out" is a shorthand argument which has, >> unfortunately, been widely accepted in our perspective on the issue. If you >> read the trajectory of events as outlined in Valmiki Faleiro's recent book, >> you might conclude otherwise. >> >> (4) 1961 in Goa has to be also viewed in the context of the Cold War. >> Some studies here have begun looking in that direction. This issue is not >> only about India and Portugal, let alone Goa. >> >> (5) This "France was wise" or "Portugal could have followed France" logic >> has been put forth repeatedly, and seldom challenged. It is based on an >> acute misunderstanding of what happened in Pondicherry. For instance, a >> perusal of the recently-published *The Portuguese Presence in India* (Notion >> Press, 2020) by João A de Menezes, p.198-212, could easily make one >> rethink this argument. This argument has come up a few times in this forum >> too, and then we end up taking it as accurate. >> >> FN >> >> On Wednesday 13 December 2023 at 01:58:43 UTC+5:30 eugene.correia wrote: >> >> Well, Portugal withdrew from East Timor, as the independence movement was >> fierce. I don't think Portugal keeping East Timor as one of its colonies >> would be a financial benefit. Seemingly, East Timor was a "basket case' for >> Portugal while Goa was a "rich basket". Colonial politics in those times >> rested on "gains and loses" and Portugal let go off of East Timor but >> reluctantly held on to Goa. >> As events proved later on, Indian patience ran out. Knowing well that >> Salszar would find it difficult to keep Goa in its embrace by >> engaging India in a war, it was a walk-over as we know it. Goa's freedom >> did ring a bell in African countries and the Non-Alignment Movement gained >> momentum and slowly but surely the continent of Africa was free of colonial >> rule. No self-respecting people like subjugation by a foreign power when >> the people's consciousness and national pride comes to the fore. >> What would happen to Goa if it continued to be under Portuguese rule is >> nobody's guess. France was wise, as it earned respect. Portugal was humbled >> and disgraced. 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