All these countries have special arrangements with neighbouring and friendly countries. For example, the Vatican is fully surrounded and protected by Italy and even its Papal guard is donated by the Swiss. So anybody trying to attack them, if at all, then they would need to get through Italian mainland and airspace first... and its 'eternal' unique touristic influx bankrolls its economy. Monaco is the home for the super rich, it is geared for that purpose. France looks after their defences, and along with Spain, they both look after similar needs of other tiny countries and principalities like San Marino, Leichtenstein, Andorra, etc. All other islands are British protectorates else have special arrangements with the likes of Australia, USA, etc. Their currencies are also linked to the US$. Their GDP's are amongst the highest in the world due to tax heaven and other similar arrangements. Hence each of these small nations have their own 'golden basket'. What does Goa have in similar terms? Also, every tiny country needs a proper godfather. Whom would an independent Goa have as a godfather nation? If Goa would had been independent, then India would had been the last country on earth offering it protection. So, it would had been completely vulnerable from the sea. Any other country protecting it would had been pointless, unless it would had been a super power. Similar to the Taiwan/China scenario, India would had been always salivating to gobble it someday. The geography of a tiny nation matters a lot if that nation is located on mainland. Israel is a clear example of this, surrounded by enemies one cannot do anything about it. But it has the USA behind it, not because the USA wants to do it, but because the USA is controlled by fellow Jews. It is not just about defense but also infrastructure. Goa has hardly anything to warrant being an independent nation. Just an airport, a weak and low income tourist industry full of hippies, few manufacturing industries and a bit of iron ore won't be enough to pay the bills. It needs more but there seems to be limited on what it can produce. What can it export to generate big revenues for its coffers? It has advanced a lot now due to India's investment in the state, but it had nothing in 1961, Goa was basically 'barren land'... Goa being a highly corrupt place, with highly corrupt politicians of almost zero principles, it does not help the case of an independent country. One has to be realistic about the case for independence at some point, dreaming about it for Goa is just that, a dream. It would had never worked, it would never add up. Joao Paulo Cota
________________________________ From: 'Bernardo de Sousa' via Goa-Research-Net <[email protected]> Sent: 15 December 2023 10:44 To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GRN] Pamphlets Here is a list of the 10 smallest countries without any iron ore or big industries that are all independent countries, rich and thriving. Your argument falls completely flat: • Vatican City (0.19 square miles) • Monaco (0.78 square miles) • Nauru (8.1 square miles) • Tuvalu (10 square miles) • San Marino (24 square miles) • Liechtenstein (62 square miles) • Marshall Islands (70 square miles) • Saint Kitts and Nevis (101 square miles) • Maldives (120 square miles) • Malta (122 square miles) > On 13 Dec 2023, at 11:03, Joao Paulo Cota <[email protected]> wrote: > > The economic blockade was designed to disrupt the imports from overseas and > from inland India. > Agree that Goa produced manpower for the three military branches, but having > its own military bases, airports and naval quarters alongwith tanks, fighter > jets, warships of all classes, are a total different ballgame. > Goa's iron ore and other small industries would not generate enough GDP to > fund all that plus run the state. > It could never be an independent country. Just too small in size... although > there were valid calls for this due to the unique Goan identity. > Regards, > Joao PauloFrom: [email protected] > <[email protected]> on behalf of John de Figueiredo > <[email protected]> > Sent: 13 December 2023 01:03 > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [GRN] Pamphlets > Valmiki Faleiro stated that the economic blockade placed by the Government > of India proved Goa to be perfectly capable of being self-sufficient and he > demonstrated that Goa produced distinguished officers in the army, Air Force, > and navy. So that argument does not seem to be supported by data. All the > pieces of the puzzle were in place but the puzzle was never solved. > John > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 12, 2023, at 7:18 PM, Joao Paulo Cota <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Worth pointing out that Monaco does not have any army, air force or navy. >> Its defence needs are being provided by France. >> Hence the same analogy would mean, India would need to provide that to Goa, >> being its immediate neighbour... realistically, I can't see that happening. >> JP >> >> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> >> on behalf of John de Figueiredo <[email protected]> >> Sent: 12 December 2023 23:09 >> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [GRN] Pamphlets >> Good points, Frederick. >> The geographical argument does not count either. >> Monaco is of the size of 314 acres, with a population a little over 36,000, >> speaking French, and surrounded all 3 sides by France. The third side is >> along the sea just as Goa. But Monaco is an independent nation. >> Bruto da Costa wanted a plebiscite for the Goans to decide on the future of >> Goa. This plebiscite never took place. >> At any rate, if flowers became concrete, this conversation is irrelevant >> because the Goa we are discussing is no more. >> John >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Dec 12, 2023, at 4:02 PM, fredericknoronha <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Something makes me want to disagree with quite a few of the comments made, >>> and conclusions drawn, below: >>> >>> (1) My reading is that Portugal dealt with East Timor in the way it did >>> more due to the turmoil at that time in Portugal itself, the Carnation >>> Revolution, abrupt change in political direction, etc. Open to correction >>> here. >>> >>> (2) About Goa being a "rich basket", economic studies and other accepted >>> analyses suggest otherwise. Salazar could have (rightly) seen a "domino >>> effect" starting in Goa. Something that undercut the plank on which his >>> ideology was based. Plus, in the Portuguese imagination over centuries, Goa >>> meant something rather different. Call this emotional reasons, or whatever >>> you wish. >>> >>> (3) "Indian patience ran out" is a shorthand argument which has, >>> unfortunately, been widely accepted in our perspective on the issue. If you >>> read the trajectory of events as outlined in Valmiki Faleiro's recent book, >>> you might conclude otherwise. >>> >>> (4) 1961 in Goa has to be also viewed in the context of the Cold War. Some >>> studies here have begun looking in that direction. This issue is not only >>> about India and Portugal, let alone Goa. >>> >>> (5) This "France was wise" or "Portugal could have followed France" logic >>> has been put forth repeatedly, and seldom challenged. It is based on an >>> acute misunderstanding of what happened in Pondicherry. For instance, a >>> perusal of the recently-published The Portuguese Presence in India (Notion >>> Press, 2020) by João A de Menezes, p.198-212, could easily make one >>> rethink this argument. This argument has come up a few times in this forum >>> too, and then we end up taking it as accurate. >>> >>> FN >>> >>> On Wednesday 13 December 2023 at 01:58:43 UTC+5:30 eugene.correia wrote: >>> Well, Portugal withdrew from East Timor, as the independence movement was >>> fierce. I don't think Portugal keeping East Timor as one of its colonies >>> would be a financial benefit. Seemingly, East Timor was a "basket case' for >>> Portugal while Goa was a "rich basket". Colonial politics in those times >>> rested on "gains and loses" and Portugal let go off of East Timor but >>> reluctantly held on to Goa. >>> As events proved later on, Indian patience ran out. Knowing well that >>> Salszar would find it difficult to keep Goa in its embrace by engaging >>> India in a war, it was a walk-over as we know it. Goa's freedom did ring a >>> bell in African countries and the Non-Alignment Movement gained momentum >>> and slowly but surely the continent of Africa was free of colonial rule. No >>> self-respecting people like subjugation by a foreign power when the >>> people's consciousness and national pride comes to the fore. >>> What would happen to Goa if it continued to be under Portuguese rule is >>> nobody's guess. France was wise, as it earned respect. Portugal was humbled >>> and disgraced. 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