I'd a thought when dileep came up with the question 'who is a worker in kerala'. It was like all of us were being led to 'cpim' track of discussion. It is in the name of 'revolution' 'proletarian' and 'worldwide workers' they do all these atrocities.
Why we 've to read/revisit marx, ram manohar lohya and all to understand the cruel situation in Chengara? On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 3:32 PM, neelan neelakandan < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I request my young friends to revisit Ram Manohar Lohya, and his class and > caste concepts. Read him long long back . But was too critical and cynical > of him those days.I too was young !!! > Neelan > > > --- On Tue, 19/8/08, C.K. Vishwanath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: C.K. Vishwanath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: "who is a worker" in Kerala? > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Tuesday, 19 August, 2008, 3:52 PM > > organised sector is the base of the indian parliamentary > > left.the sector is shrinking.informal sector is developing > > very fast and self-employment.manufacturing industry was the > > base of this left.after the collapse of the manufacturing > > sector,the traditional base of the indian left had > > disappered.all the big industrial areas of india(from mumbai > > to ahmadabad)has later explained the phenomenon of > > communalism among workers. ak.roy explained the phenomenon > > from the secular politics of working class to the communal > > politics of the workers.the classical capital-labour > > polarisation has lost its objective base.this is not an > > indian reality.it is also a world wide reality.new > > immaterial labour has totally disappered the traditional > > working class unity.new consuption pattern,life > > style,atomisation of workers has created new problems in > > working class politics.the neo-liberal capital assertion > > pushes the producing sections of the society in avery > > defensive > > position. > > the five class divisions of the peasants are so difficult > > to understand .the ruruban middle class(cpim analysis) plus > > plantation sector has become a powerful ruling block in > > kerala society.it is buldozing any furher land > > redistribution.cpim's base is this rurban middle class. > > > > > > --- On Wed, 8/13/08, Dileep Raj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > From: Dileep Raj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: "who is a worker" in > > Kerala? > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [email protected] > > Date: Wednesday, August 13, 2008, 11:25 PM > > > > On Marxism: > > I maintain a distinction between critique and rejection. > > > > On CPIM : > > I consider engaging with whoever is ready to engage as > > important. > > It is just like engaging in critical discussions with > > people > > working in Congress, BJP, Muslim League etc. Nothing less. > > > > On us: > > I consider (though I won't claim to be c'lean') > > engaging > > in dialogues without branding/vulgarising the opponent / > > opponent's arguments > > is pre requisite for the emergence of any sort of > > democracy. > > > > What is the point in being aggressive toward others who are > > ready to seriously engage? > > > > On the subject line: > > Will come back tomorrow > > > > Cheers! > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 11:09 PM, ranju radha > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > it s a pity to see that people can so enthusiastically talk > > abt marxism in this 21st century. > > while looking at caste as essentialistic, they forget to > > de-essentialise class as well. > > while clamouring against globalisation, they forget that > > workers of all countries unite has a globalising universal > > mission..... > > marxism is a big joke now. do we real want to debate on > > it.. again and again > > let us move ahead; dont be stuck in the muddy water of > > marxism > > > > this question :who is a worker? is important > > who is this karshaka thozhilali? > > > > class question has erased the Dalits from it, and yet they > > are denied '"class" > > within class they are again devoid class status... they are > > left with caste only > > why? > > bz this happened not in 20th century London, but in India. > > > > caste is again not static; it has evolvd into modern times; > > class negotiations could not erase caste. > > secular project did not erase religion. > > > > these homogenising universal grand narratives failes to > > understand/analyse society. > > the European academia has accepted this aspect. They are > > revisiting the question of religion; revisiting > > Enlightenment. > > my submission is that CPI M is so unimportant a category in > > this whole discourse > > it s like a mafia gang only; dont give undue importnace to > > it. > > > > and this Gandhian reformatory appraoch to CPI M as shown by > > some loyal buddies can be helpful 4 V S pinarayi kind to > > survive some more time, nothing else > > > > pavangal nattukare pattichum gundayism > > kanichum jeevichotte ennanengil > > pavam marxinu pizhachathu nammalenthinu edutharadanam!! > > though people have the right to do > > so........................but not at the cost of PEOPLE!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/13/08, damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > Before coming to the Chengara and the 'worker" > > projected onto the scene, let me make a brief > > 'presentation". > > > > I am not sure about the primacy of one category over > > the other as I am doubtful about the conflation of the two, > > let me emphasise, in the current socio-political context > > when there is an unleashing of social energy from the below. > > > > > > > > Secondly, Marxists historians, like Kosambi and Irfan Habib > > from the Marxist view point 'demystified > > caste" from its essentiaist and orinetalist moorings > > and also brought to the fore this submerged category from > > the nationalistic narratives. > > > > > > Marxists had enagaged with the caste as a category and > > understood the politcal significance of it in the social > > transformation. But because of their inistence on modernity > > and its process of social change, the caste was considered > > as soemthing to be overcome through class negotiations and > > thus they understood caste as eroding category. > > > > > > Any anger against CPIM and just based on that debasing > > Marxism and Marxists from the enagagements with caste I find > > it as "intellectual zhadonovism" ( this is an > > oxyMORON and I refer to individual/s with same sort of > > content whatver their 'legitimacy" claim may bel) > > > > > > Caste is also an infrastructure in the circulation of > > social energies.Hence "valorizing" it only basing > > it on the current situation is damaging and disastrous on > > the long run. This is an essentalizing strategy of identity > > poltiics which is meant for self-seeking purpose on a > > long-term gains resisting any changes. No dialogues or > > negotitaions are permitted in such essentalist > > udnerstandings. This is fasicstic. They may convienently > > keep mum on Hindutva and charge against Marxism form their > > own stupid understanding of Marxism. Ineteretignly, also > > invoke Marxist narrative of final salvation sometimes to > > drive their point. > > > > > > Indian Communist party could never resolve and engage with > > caste issues. This is not soemthing new. In Chengara, there > > is an attempt to Privelege the worker over the dispossessed > > dalits and perhaps many of them 'rural > > proletariats". CPM has been doign this with all new > > mobilizations. > > > > > > But in particular case of Chengara , harrison goondas > > appear on the scene as workers and demeaning the very notion > > of worker itself. > > > > > > > > On 8/13/08, Dileep Raj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Let me rephrase the question in a new thread. > > > > Who are "workers' in Kerala? > > How come the landless people in Chengara are > > viewed as 'lesser' beings in comparison with the > > valorised "worker' identity? > > > > How does the assertion of Dalit political identity > > problematise the central category of > > Marixian politics? > > > > I feel there are histotrical, political and > > historico;political answers to this question, > > partly submerged in research papers, partly inherent in > > current political practice and thought. > > > > for instance, Sanal Mohan's anlyses of slavery in > > Kerala enquires about the invisibility of slave experineces > > in and athrough > > communist/ Marxist discourses > > -- > > Dileep R I thuravoor > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Dileep R I thuravoor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now, on > http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/ > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
