ok..but pl dont think that i was trying to twist the topic into Chengara. because it was at the context of Chengara only the issue of revisiting lohya came up.
On 8/20/08, neelan neelakandan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Sorry, friend. > Neelan > > --- On Wed, 20/8/08, salimtk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: salimtk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: "who is a worker" in Kerala? > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Wednesday, 20 August, 2008, 10:17 AM > > but....do u think one is 'free' *if* s/he takes part > > with the powerful (in > > Chengara)? > > > > On 8/20/08, neelan neelakandan > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > One is always free not to read or revisit too. > > > Neelan > > > > > > --- On Tue, 19/8/08, salimtk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: salimtk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: "who is a > > worker" in Kerala? > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Date: Tuesday, 19 August, 2008, 11:25 PM > > > > I'd a thought when dileep came up with the > > question > > > > 'who is a worker in > > > > kerala'. It was like all of us were being > > led to > > > > 'cpim' track of > > > > discussion. It is in the name of > > 'revolution' > > > > 'proletarian' and 'worldwide > > > > workers' they do all these atrocities. > > > > > > > > Why we 've to read/revisit marx, ram manohar > > lohya and > > > > all to understand the > > > > cruel situation in Chengara? > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 3:32 PM, neelan > > neelakandan < > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I request my young friends to revisit Ram > > Manohar > > > > Lohya, and his class and > > > > > caste concepts. Read him long long back . > > But was too > > > > critical and cynical > > > > > of him those days.I too was young !!! > > > > > Neelan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 19/8/08, C.K. Vishwanath > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: C.K. Vishwanath > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: "who is > > a > > > > worker" in Kerala? > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, 19 August, 2008, 3:52 PM > > > > > > organised sector is the base of the > > indian > > > > parliamentary > > > > > > left.the sector is shrinking.informal > > sector is > > > > developing > > > > > > very fast and > > self-employment.manufacturing > > > > industry was the > > > > > > base of this left.after the collapse of > > the > > > > manufacturing > > > > > > sector,the traditional base of the > > indian left > > > > had > > > > > > disappered.all the big industrial areas > > of > > > > india(from mumbai > > > > > > to ahmadabad)has later explained the > > phenomenon > > > > of > > > > > > communalism among workers. ak.roy > > explained the > > > > phenomenon > > > > > > from the secular politics of working > > class to the > > > > communal > > > > > > politics of the workers.the classical > > > > capital-labour > > > > > > polarisation has lost its objective > > base.this is > > > > not an > > > > > > indian reality.it is also a world wide > > > > reality.new > > > > > > immaterial labour has totally > > disappered the > > > > traditional > > > > > > working class unity.new consuption > > pattern,life > > > > > > style,atomisation of workers has > > created new > > > > problems in > > > > > > working class politics.the neo-liberal > > capital > > > > assertion > > > > > > pushes the producing sections of the > > society in > > > > avery > > > > > > defensive > > > > > > position. > > > > > > the five class divisions of the > > peasants are so > > > > difficult > > > > > > to understand .the ruruban middle > > class(cpim > > > > analysis) plus > > > > > > plantation sector has become a powerful > > ruling > > > > block in > > > > > > kerala society.it is buldozing any > > furher land > > > > > > redistribution.cpim's base is this > > rurban > > > > middle class. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 8/13/08, Dileep Raj > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Dileep Raj > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: "who is > > a > > > > worker" in > > > > > > Kerala? > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, August 13, 2008, 11:25 > > PM > > > > > > > > > > > > On Marxism: > > > > > > I maintain a distinction between > > critique and > > > > rejection. > > > > > > > > > > > > On CPIM : > > > > > > I consider engaging with whoever is > > ready to > > > > engage as > > > > > > important. > > > > > > It is just like engaging in critical > > discussions > > > > with > > > > > > people > > > > > > working in Congress, BJP, Muslim League > > etc. > > > > Nothing less. > > > > > > > > > > > > On us: > > > > > > I consider (though I won't claim to > > be > > > > c'lean') > > > > > > engaging > > > > > > in dialogues without > > branding/vulgarising the > > > > opponent / > > > > > > opponent's arguments > > > > > > is pre requisite for the emergence of > > any sort of > > > > > > democracy. > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the point in being aggressive > > toward > > > > others who are > > > > > > ready to seriously engage? > > > > > > > > > > > > On the subject line: > > > > > > Will come back tomorrow > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 11:09 PM, ranju > > radha > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it s a pity to see that people can so > > > > enthusiastically talk > > > > > > abt marxism in this 21st century. > > > > > > while looking at caste as > > essentialistic, they > > > > forget to > > > > > > de-essentialise class as well. > > > > > > while clamouring against globalisation, > > they > > > > forget that > > > > > > workers of all countries unite has a > > globalising > > > > universal > > > > > > mission..... > > > > > > marxism is a big joke now. do we real > > want to > > > > debate on > > > > > > it.. again and again > > > > > > let us move ahead; dont be stuck in the > > muddy > > > > water of > > > > > > marxism > > > > > > > > > > > > this question :who is a worker? is > > important > > > > > > who is this karshaka thozhilali? > > > > > > > > > > > > class question has erased the Dalits > > from it, and > > > > yet they > > > > > > are denied '"class" > > > > > > within class they are again devoid > > class > > > > status... they are > > > > > > left with caste only > > > > > > why? > > > > > > bz this happened not in 20th century > > London, but > > > > in India. > > > > > > > > > > > > caste is again not static; it has > > evolvd into > > > > modern times; > > > > > > class negotiations could not erase > > caste. > > > > > > secular project did not erase religion. > > > > > > > > > > > > these homogenising universal grand > > narratives > > > > failes to > > > > > > understand/analyse society. > > > > > > the European academia has accepted this > > aspect. > > > > They are > > > > > > revisiting the question of religion; > > revisiting > > > > > > Enlightenment. > > > > > > my submission is that CPI M is so > > unimportant a > > > > category in > > > > > > this whole discourse > > > > > > it s like a mafia gang only; dont give > > undue > > > > importnace to > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > and this Gandhian reformatory appraoch > > to CPI M > > > > as shown by > > > > > > some loyal buddies can be helpful 4 V S > > pinarayi > > > > kind to > > > > > > survive some more time, nothing else > > > > > > > > > > > > pavangal nattukare pattichum gundayism > > > > > > kanichum jeevichotte ennanengil > > > > > > pavam marxinu pizhachathu nammalenthinu > > > > edutharadanam!! > > > > > > though people have the right to do > > > > > > so........................but not at > > the cost of > > > > PEOPLE!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/13/08, damodar prasad > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Before coming to the Chengara and the > > > > 'worker" > > > > > > projected onto the scene, let me make a > > brief > > > > > > 'presentation". > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure about the primacy of one > > category > > > > over > > > > > > the other as I am doubtful about the > > conflation > > > > of the two, > > > > > > let me emphasise, in the current > > socio-political > > > > context > > > > > > when there is an unleashing of social > > energy from > > > > the below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, Marxists historians, like > > Kosambi and > > > > Irfan Habib > > > > > > from the Marxist view point > > 'demystified > > > > > > caste" from its essentiaist and > > orinetalist > > > > moorings > > > > > > and also brought to the fore this > > submerged > > > > category from > > > > > > the nationalistic narratives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marxists had enagaged with the caste as > > a > > > > category and > > > > > > understood the politcal significance of > > it in the > > > > social > > > > > > transformation. But because of their > > inistence on > > > > modernity > > > > > > and its process of social change, the > > caste was > > > > considered > > > > > > as soemthing to be overcome through > > class > > > > negotiations and > > > > > > thus they understood caste as eroding > > category. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any anger against CPIM and just based > > on that > > > > debasing > > > > > > Marxism and Marxists from the > > enagagements with > > > > caste I find > > > > > > it as "intellectual > > zhadonovism" ( > > > > this is an > > > > > > oxyMORON and I refer to individual/s > > with same > > > > sort of > > > > > > content whatver their > > 'legitimacy" claim > > > > may bel) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Caste is also an infrastructure in the > > > > circulation of > > > > > > social energies.Hence > > "valorizing" it > > > > only basing > > > > > > it on the current situation is damaging > > and > > > > disastrous on > > > > > > the long run. This is an essentalizing > > strategy > > > > of identity > > > > > > poltiics which is meant for > > self-seeking purpose > > > > on a > > > > > > long-term gains resisting any changes. > > No > > > > dialogues or > > > > > > negotitaions are permitted in such > > essentalist > > > > > > udnerstandings. This is fasicstic. They > > may > > > > convienently > > > > > > keep mum on Hindutva and charge against > > Marxism > > > > form their > > > > > > own stupid understanding of Marxism. > > > > Ineteretignly, also > > > > > > invoke Marxist narrative of final > > salvation > > > > sometimes to > > > > > > drive their point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Indian Communist party could never > > resolve and > > > > engage with > > > > > > caste issues. This is not soemthing > > new. In > > > > Chengara, there > > > > > > is an attempt to Privelege the worker > > over the > > > > dispossessed > > > > > > dalits and perhaps many of them > > 'rural > > > > > > proletariats". CPM has been doign > > this with > > > > all new > > > > > > mobilizations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But in particular case of Chengara , > > harrison > > > > goondas > > > > > > appear on the scene as workers and > > demeaning the > > > > very notion > > > > > > of worker itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/13/08, Dileep Raj > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me rephrase the question in a new > > thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > Who are "workers' in Kerala? > > > > > > How come the landless people in > > Chengara are > > > > > > viewed as 'lesser' beings in > > comparison > > > > with the > > > > > > valorised "worker' identity? > > > > > > > > > > > > How does the assertion of Dalit > > political > > > > identity > > > > > > problematise the central category of > > > > > > Marixian politics? > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel there are histotrical, political > > and > > > > > > historico;political answers to this > > question, > > > > > > partly submerged in research papers, > > partly > > > > inherent in > > > > > > current political practice and thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > for instance, Sanal Mohan's anlyses > > of > > > > slavery in > > > > > > Kerala enquires about the invisibility > > of slave > > > > experineces > > > > > > in and athrough > > > > > > communist/ Marxist discourses > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Dileep R I thuravoor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Dileep R I thuravoor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. > > Get it > > > > now, on > > > > > > > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Connect with friends all over the world. Get > > Yahoo! India Messenger at > > > http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/?wm=n/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Download prohibited? No problem. CHAT from any browser, without > download. Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/ > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
