but....do u think one is 'free' *if* s/he takes part with the powerful (in Chengara)?
On 8/20/08, neelan neelakandan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > One is always free not to read or revisit too. > Neelan > > --- On Tue, 19/8/08, salimtk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: salimtk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: "who is a worker" in Kerala? > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Tuesday, 19 August, 2008, 11:25 PM > > I'd a thought when dileep came up with the question > > 'who is a worker in > > kerala'. It was like all of us were being led to > > 'cpim' track of > > discussion. It is in the name of 'revolution' > > 'proletarian' and 'worldwide > > workers' they do all these atrocities. > > > > Why we 've to read/revisit marx, ram manohar lohya and > > all to understand the > > cruel situation in Chengara? > > > > On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 3:32 PM, neelan neelakandan < > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I request my young friends to revisit Ram Manohar > > Lohya, and his class and > > > caste concepts. Read him long long back . But was too > > critical and cynical > > > of him those days.I too was young !!! > > > Neelan > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 19/8/08, C.K. Vishwanath > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > From: C.K. Vishwanath > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: "who is a > > worker" in Kerala? > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Date: Tuesday, 19 August, 2008, 3:52 PM > > > > organised sector is the base of the indian > > parliamentary > > > > left.the sector is shrinking.informal sector is > > developing > > > > very fast and self-employment.manufacturing > > industry was the > > > > base of this left.after the collapse of the > > manufacturing > > > > sector,the traditional base of the indian left > > had > > > > disappered.all the big industrial areas of > > india(from mumbai > > > > to ahmadabad)has later explained the phenomenon > > of > > > > communalism among workers. ak.roy explained the > > phenomenon > > > > from the secular politics of working class to the > > communal > > > > politics of the workers.the classical > > capital-labour > > > > polarisation has lost its objective base.this is > > not an > > > > indian reality.it is also a world wide > > reality.new > > > > immaterial labour has totally disappered the > > traditional > > > > working class unity.new consuption pattern,life > > > > style,atomisation of workers has created new > > problems in > > > > working class politics.the neo-liberal capital > > assertion > > > > pushes the producing sections of the society in > > avery > > > > defensive > > > > position. > > > > the five class divisions of the peasants are so > > difficult > > > > to understand .the ruruban middle class(cpim > > analysis) plus > > > > plantation sector has become a powerful ruling > > block in > > > > kerala society.it is buldozing any furher land > > > > redistribution.cpim's base is this rurban > > middle class. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 8/13/08, Dileep Raj > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > From: Dileep Raj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: "who is a > > worker" in > > > > Kerala? > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], > > [email protected] > > > > Date: Wednesday, August 13, 2008, 11:25 PM > > > > > > > > On Marxism: > > > > I maintain a distinction between critique and > > rejection. > > > > > > > > On CPIM : > > > > I consider engaging with whoever is ready to > > engage as > > > > important. > > > > It is just like engaging in critical discussions > > with > > > > people > > > > working in Congress, BJP, Muslim League etc. > > Nothing less. > > > > > > > > On us: > > > > I consider (though I won't claim to be > > c'lean') > > > > engaging > > > > in dialogues without branding/vulgarising the > > opponent / > > > > opponent's arguments > > > > is pre requisite for the emergence of any sort of > > > > democracy. > > > > > > > > What is the point in being aggressive toward > > others who are > > > > ready to seriously engage? > > > > > > > > On the subject line: > > > > Will come back tomorrow > > > > > > > > Cheers! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 11:09 PM, ranju radha > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it s a pity to see that people can so > > enthusiastically talk > > > > abt marxism in this 21st century. > > > > while looking at caste as essentialistic, they > > forget to > > > > de-essentialise class as well. > > > > while clamouring against globalisation, they > > forget that > > > > workers of all countries unite has a globalising > > universal > > > > mission..... > > > > marxism is a big joke now. do we real want to > > debate on > > > > it.. again and again > > > > let us move ahead; dont be stuck in the muddy > > water of > > > > marxism > > > > > > > > this question :who is a worker? is important > > > > who is this karshaka thozhilali? > > > > > > > > class question has erased the Dalits from it, and > > yet they > > > > are denied '"class" > > > > within class they are again devoid class > > status... they are > > > > left with caste only > > > > why? > > > > bz this happened not in 20th century London, but > > in India. > > > > > > > > caste is again not static; it has evolvd into > > modern times; > > > > class negotiations could not erase caste. > > > > secular project did not erase religion. > > > > > > > > these homogenising universal grand narratives > > failes to > > > > understand/analyse society. > > > > the European academia has accepted this aspect. > > They are > > > > revisiting the question of religion; revisiting > > > > Enlightenment. > > > > my submission is that CPI M is so unimportant a > > category in > > > > this whole discourse > > > > it s like a mafia gang only; dont give undue > > importnace to > > > > it. > > > > > > > > and this Gandhian reformatory appraoch to CPI M > > as shown by > > > > some loyal buddies can be helpful 4 V S pinarayi > > kind to > > > > survive some more time, nothing else > > > > > > > > pavangal nattukare pattichum gundayism > > > > kanichum jeevichotte ennanengil > > > > pavam marxinu pizhachathu nammalenthinu > > edutharadanam!! > > > > though people have the right to do > > > > so........................but not at the cost of > > PEOPLE!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/13/08, damodar prasad > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Before coming to the Chengara and the > > 'worker" > > > > projected onto the scene, let me make a brief > > > > 'presentation". > > > > > > > > I am not sure about the primacy of one category > > over > > > > the other as I am doubtful about the conflation > > of the two, > > > > let me emphasise, in the current socio-political > > context > > > > when there is an unleashing of social energy from > > the below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, Marxists historians, like Kosambi and > > Irfan Habib > > > > from the Marxist view point 'demystified > > > > caste" from its essentiaist and orinetalist > > moorings > > > > and also brought to the fore this submerged > > category from > > > > the nationalistic narratives. > > > > > > > > > > > > Marxists had enagaged with the caste as a > > category and > > > > understood the politcal significance of it in the > > social > > > > transformation. But because of their inistence on > > modernity > > > > and its process of social change, the caste was > > considered > > > > as soemthing to be overcome through class > > negotiations and > > > > thus they understood caste as eroding category. > > > > > > > > > > > > Any anger against CPIM and just based on that > > debasing > > > > Marxism and Marxists from the enagagements with > > caste I find > > > > it as "intellectual zhadonovism" ( > > this is an > > > > oxyMORON and I refer to individual/s with same > > sort of > > > > content whatver their 'legitimacy" claim > > may bel) > > > > > > > > > > > > Caste is also an infrastructure in the > > circulation of > > > > social energies.Hence "valorizing" it > > only basing > > > > it on the current situation is damaging and > > disastrous on > > > > the long run. This is an essentalizing strategy > > of identity > > > > poltiics which is meant for self-seeking purpose > > on a > > > > long-term gains resisting any changes. No > > dialogues or > > > > negotitaions are permitted in such essentalist > > > > udnerstandings. This is fasicstic. They may > > convienently > > > > keep mum on Hindutva and charge against Marxism > > form their > > > > own stupid understanding of Marxism. > > Ineteretignly, also > > > > invoke Marxist narrative of final salvation > > sometimes to > > > > drive their point. > > > > > > > > > > > > Indian Communist party could never resolve and > > engage with > > > > caste issues. This is not soemthing new. In > > Chengara, there > > > > is an attempt to Privelege the worker over the > > dispossessed > > > > dalits and perhaps many of them 'rural > > > > proletariats". CPM has been doign this with > > all new > > > > mobilizations. > > > > > > > > > > > > But in particular case of Chengara , harrison > > goondas > > > > appear on the scene as workers and demeaning the > > very notion > > > > of worker itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/13/08, Dileep Raj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me rephrase the question in a new thread. > > > > > > > > Who are "workers' in Kerala? > > > > How come the landless people in Chengara are > > > > viewed as 'lesser' beings in comparison > > with the > > > > valorised "worker' identity? > > > > > > > > How does the assertion of Dalit political > > identity > > > > problematise the central category of > > > > Marixian politics? > > > > > > > > I feel there are histotrical, political and > > > > historico;political answers to this question, > > > > partly submerged in research papers, partly > > inherent in > > > > current political practice and thought. > > > > > > > > for instance, Sanal Mohan's anlyses of > > slavery in > > > > Kerala enquires about the invisibility of slave > > experineces > > > > in and athrough > > > > communist/ Marxist discourses > > > > -- > > > > Dileep R I thuravoor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Dileep R I thuravoor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it > > now, on > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Connect with friends all over the world. Get Yahoo! India Messenger at > http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/?wm=n/ > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
