Hey Brusier! I'd be glad to help! 1. Yeah, I don't see why not. If it's the kind of foil tape that I'm used to, it has that sticky paper backing, yeah? My only concern would be that the foil *could* maybe, might, potentially come loose-ish; whereas masking tape or similar is a single layer. But that's a small concern, and a really big IF. Since the point of pre-taping is to avoid having to apply cement directly to the foam; as long as you have a higher vinyl-to-rmax contact than you do vinyl-to-tape, then you should be good. I suspect the foil on the tape is probably as good as the foil on the rmax, and that holds just fine. We even swapped out the masking tape at one point for all-weather duct tape and that also did the job.
2. I wanted to have at least 2 inches of contact on each side of the gap so I used 4" wide strips for the tight hinges and 7" wide strips for the loose hinges. My boards were 1.5" thick, so that's where the extra 3" went. After pre-taping, I had about 1.75" of direct vinyl-to-rmax contact and sometimes even closer 2" because of the mitered edge being nearly as wide as my tape. 3. If you can do it, I would do it. Even though the application is more involved, you are essentially making a strong thick "tape". Wherever you would have thought of using tape, VCC will be a good, more permanent solution. The doors on my dome were hinged with vinyl and they worked really well. The great thing about vinyl is that you can choose different thicknesses to suit your needs, and many are nearly crystal clear, perfect for windows. 4. Definitely buy a few yards and cut it really long. That's what I would do if I were you. While it's not entirely frowned upon to use two pieces end to end, you'll need to note that when you pull off any BFT that you *do* end up using, it will be tricky to not pull up the second strip of vinyl a little. Contact cement can be stronger than the adhesive of BFT, but not always, especially if it was tape that didn't have a lot of exposure. 5. Yeah, a hand roller would be brilliant! I'd still recommend to brush on the contact cement, wait a couple mins, then unroll a strip of vinyl onto it, but we did spend a lot of time using our finger nails or glass bottles to press down the vinyl. A little 2-3" hand roller just might be my next bit of gear in my dome maintenance kit. Thanks for the reminder! You'll almost never get all the bubbles out because the glue will be very very tacky. Slowly unrolling the vinyl onto a tacky glue surface is your best chance at fighting lots of bubbles. Any that do form will likely go away as the cement cures. On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:29:35 AM UTC-7, Bruiser Smith wrote: > > Hi Jacob - > > I've read your posts on here, the guide and videos on your Google Drive, > as well as your posts on Eplaya. First off - thank you for putting together > such a comprehensive guide! I am looking to apply this to my pentayurt > (H10) this year, and have a couple questions which would greatly help me > out: > > > 1. What are your thoughts following the method of foil taping the > edges rather than using masking tape or contact cement? I already have a > large roll of 3" foil. > 2. For the 'loose' hinges, did you use both 7 inch on the inside as > well as the outside? > 3. Thoughts on using vinyl/cc hinges for doors & windows? > 4. For my structure, which needs longer lengths of vinyl, can't I just > buy a few yards of vinyl and cut them length-wise? > 5. Thoughts on using a hand roller to minimize bubbles? > http://www.istscientific.com/user/products/large/quickseal-hand-roller.jpg > > > Again I can't thank you enough for putting together all of the resources > that you have!!!! > > On Sunday, July 7, 2013 11:45:17 PM UTC-6, Jacob Rodriguez wrote: >> >> Sorry, not sure about "tap plastics". The stuff I'm buying is used for >> covering furniture, or used as storm windows or whatever. Marine vinyl is >> really good. I used to think it was 4 gauge vinyl, but it's actually 12 >> gauge. Probably best to make sure it's UV treated, but mine doesn't say >> specifically and is proving itself quite well outside for the past month or >> so. No cracking or getting hard or anything. Anything that is sold to be >> used outdoors is what you're looking for. >> >> Here's a link to Amazon to give you an idea of what you want: >> http://www.amazon.com/No-Manufacturer-Gauge-Clear-Vinyl/dp/B003ZFA4LM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373261515&sr=8-1&keywords=12+gauge+vinyl >> >> I've also just updated a document that explains a lot of stuff here >> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1x-PUR8OMG-4_uxGuXYmoctYTdwBAl8R0mYkJc0gnCYY/edit?usp=sharing>. >> >> One thing I just learned is not to use the "eco friendly" contact cement >> that cleans up with water. Use the hardcore stuff. I'm all for saving the >> environment, but the 'Woodweld' in a green can is not what you want (takes >> too long to get tacky and dry). Find the "original" stuff in the red can if >> you can. >> >> Using 4 vs 6 inches is up to you. I'm personally going with 4 inches for >> my tight hinges (giving me 2 inches of contact on either board) and then 7 >> inch strips on my loose hinges (3 inches will be taken up by my board >> thickness (1.5"), and then 2" on each surface). In my experience, that >> seems to be plenty strong. See my tests >> <https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B9akv0Z5bU-IazJmZ2NHa2l3dVU&usp=sharing> >> (labeled >> "Test") on various things. Those prototypes only have 1.5 inches on each >> board, and some of that is over masking tape, reducing their adhesion; they >> hold up pretty well. Though it never hurts to overbuild, and if you're >> doing a regular hexayurt, you won't use too much, so why not? On my quad >> dome, I have something like 136 joins/edges that need to be done, so I will >> require about 31 yds of the stuff. Something like that anyway. >> >> Have fun! >> >> >> >> >> On Friday, July 5, 2013 10:00:32 PM UTC-7, Steve Upstill (Swifty) wrote: >>> >>> I LOVE this discussion of hinging technology and I'm sold on replacing >>> my "permanent" tape hinges with the vinyl/contact cement combo--at least >>> for purposes of experimentation. Could someone with experience provide a >>> quick buying guide for the stuff? Vinyl is a many-varied beast and it would >>> be nice to know exactly what to head for. Is Tap Plastics my friend in this >>> department? Anybody have any data about 4" vs. 6" strips? ...and so forth... >>> >>> Many Thanks, >>> Steve Upstill >>> >>> On Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:17:41 PM UTC-7, Jacob Rodriguez wrote: >>>> >>>> So, I'm going to be building a quarter sized nearodesic polyhedron >>>> ("quad") dome (1 rmax sheet = 8 triangles) for BRC this year. >>>> >>>> My foamcore and masking tape prototypes (1:12 and 1:5 scale) have been >>>> going well. I'm learning how to do the tape hinges, and how to miter the >>>> edges with a razor and angled metal guide. I'm thinking that the full size >>>> version will be relatively easy to prepare and construct. My end result is >>>> a 6' high, 12' diameter dome that folds down into a 4' x 4' x 15" high >>>> box. >>>> Minimal tape is required as all but one edge of each quad is hinged with >>>> fabric and adhesive. Only the top square, and 4 "corners" need to be fully >>>> taped together. >>>> >>>> I'm seeing lots of people commenting on how the BFT (bi-filament tape) >>>> is not really UV resistant, so it flakes off eventually. Also, that it's >>>> barely a semi-permanent solution, even if you do tape hinges instead of >>>> one-time assembly. I've considered many different types of ways to join >>>> the >>>> triangles that would last more than one or two times: >>>> >>>> - zippers (needed like 400 of them, really really expensive) >>>> - button snaps and straps (would glue on the snaps to the boards, then >>>> use a strap to snap them together; this is not weather proof at all) >>>> - velcro (again, pretty expensive if you use the really good velcro, >>>> which is likely the only way to guarantee structural integrity and >>>> 'weatherproof-ness') >>>> - magnets (even using strong ones (N45), embedding them in the edges of >>>> the triangles, they could jsut fall out, and still not weather proof. also >>>> $$$) >>>> >>>> ..and a couple of other ideas. I've learned that putting metal >>>> hooks/rods/bolts (binder clips) through the boards will just rip through >>>> it >>>> with a strong enough tug. They could end up just getting loose and boring >>>> out big holes. Using plus-shaped ("+") hooks/rods to fasten some sort of >>>> fabric over the joints are slightly better because they resist being >>>> pulled >>>> like a wire cutter through the board, but you would have holes in the >>>> board >>>> and water could get in. Also, excessive force would also just make the >>>> holes looser and ruin the boards eventually. But the idea of using some >>>> sort of fabric seems to hold merit. >>>> >>>> My main goal is to build something that can easily be packed away, and >>>> assembled multiple time. Realizing that the main principles of a good BM >>>> structure are to seal out rain, dust and light, I think I've come up with >>>> a >>>> possible solution, but I'm curious why I can't find anyone who has tried >>>> it.* >>>> I'm hoping to get some cautionary tales or some encouragement on using >>>> sport nylon (as opposed to ripstop), and some Super 77 or 80 or 90 spray >>>> adhesive, instead of the traditional tape.* >>>> >>>> The cost might be a little more expensive up front (depending on some >>>> factors), but I'm thinking that the nylon will last much longer than just >>>> about any tape and is probably just as strong (if not stronger) than BFT. >>>> From what I've read, a lot of people end up using some 77 spray anyway >>>> because of the lubricating residue on the boards. I'm curious if it's more >>>> UV resistant (or at least the adhesive would be) and therefore survive the >>>> endless sun bathing better. Also, the concept of cutting fabric into >>>> strips >>>> and using spray adhesive as a backing gives the user many more options >>>> when >>>> it comes to materials (stronger fabric and/or stronger glue), rather than >>>> just limiting to such a rare find as 6" BFT. Though I'm sure that sport >>>> nylon "tape" is even more rare. You can also make the strips as wide as >>>> you >>>> want, so you are not limited there either. >>>> >>>> I've built a prototype of a hinged triangle using foamcore, sport nylon >>>> and Super 77, which seems very, very strong. Stronger than masking tape >>>> anyway. I'm thinking that while it's not waterproof out of the box, I >>>> could >>>> always spray with some scotchguard, or tape over everything with the foil >>>> tape. Foil tape would also help any concerns on fire-hazard as the >>>> adhesive >>>> is quite flammable. I put a hairdrier on it for about 10 mins on high, to >>>> see if excessive heat made the glue loosen, but it did quite well. I'm >>>> thinking the higher temp ratings of 80 or 90 adhesive will help in that >>>> area. Maybe instead of foil tape. I can spray with some sort of coating >>>> that will protect against fire and water at the same time. >>>> >>>> For cost comparison, my project would be using about 6 rolls of 60yd >>>> tape. That's about $20 a roll. Plus about 4 rolls of foil tape (for >>>> outside >>>> only) at another $20 a roll. I'm thinking that a can of adhesive will last >>>> quite a long time, so I may only need about 3 cans at about $20 a pop. The >>>> fabric is not that expensive (maybe 5 dollars a yard), so I think all in >>>> all, I might come out saving a little cash (if any at all), but ending up >>>> with a much more permanent/reusable solution. >>>> >>>> Anyway, what do you all think? I'm going to be purchasing a piece of >>>> polyIso to test. I'm going to make a single "quad" using this nylon and >>>> adhesive, then leaving it up on my roof for a week or two to see how it >>>> handles the weather. It's Santa Monica CA weather so not quite the same, >>>> but should give a good indication as to whether it will survive at all. >>>> >>>> Thanks for reading! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hexayurt" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
