I actually don't see how a general overview could really help other than maybe the first few steps. And with the source engine, those first few steps are usually fairly easy to figure out anyway. But when you do figure those steps out yourself, you find little trinkets of code and patterns that you keep seeing and you remember them. Trudging through the code is not fun. I have been doing it for the last 2 weeks for my mod. But you learn a lot more by just going to a class and going willy nilly with the "Go to Definition" and "Go to Declaration" features in visual studio (right click on a class or variable name) than by looking at some overarching structure document (which would eventually need its own documentation).
One thing I would love to see improvements to, is Hammer. Mostly stability wise. I am not a big fan of the program just quietly shutting down without warning with changes unsaved. Sometimes hitting save crashes hammer - umm... yes. But other than that - I like source. It is very hacky. But it is also very very malleable. They have given us a giant chunk of code to mash around and I thank them for it. Cheers, Aditya On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Nuno Silva <[email protected]>wrote: > To me, the Source engine is a great engine, that's pretty obvious since it > can produce great performance while keeping geometry and graphics detailed > enough. > > However, the "public" access to the engine, Source SDK, could be much > better > if only there was documentation, as said previously. > > Documentation may seem like it's not worth it to some of you, but it can > *really* make a difference. There's a reason i never make Mods. Not that > it's "too hard", it's just that i dont have the time to spend weeks > figuring > out how stuff works. > > On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 6:16 PM, Acolyte Of the Milkman < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > from what I've seen, each year the source engine becomes more easily > usable > > and feature rich. Valve takes the iterative process of asking "what do we > > need for this game? is it going to benefit the game? and can the users on > > lower end machines handle it?" when they're creating new features. > whereas > > in the UT engine they have (literally) everything and the kitchen sink! > it > > supports 3 different types of shadowing, dynamic shadow volumes, dynamic > > shadow mapping (which source supports now), and light maps (source > supports > > radiosity, which is a more realistic method of lighting a room > statically), > > a whole slew of other graphical effects, and a in house scripting > language > > it has an abundance of other features. > > > > the Unreal Engine is superior to source in every way possible. It's > easier > > to develop for, very pretty, and has many more features than source. > > > > whoever said documentation isn't need must be completely crazy! > > Documentation for an engine should never be left on the back burner, it's > > an > > absolute must! In the software development world it's much easier to sit > > someone down and make them read documentation AND THEN fiddle with the > > source code with a better understanding of how it works V.S making them > > fiddle around with the engine till they understand exactly what the hell > is > > going on. > > > > however, Source has much more potential for the future. Each year Valve > > increases its feature set and makes it more easier to develop for. I just > > hope their tools catch up as well. > > > > Hammer should become Open source, or at least gain the ability to have > > plugins. A very large number of people in the Torque community use 3.4 > for > > mapping and I can imagine they would like to extend what they can do in > > it/get 4.0. > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Olly" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 8:32 AM > > To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < > [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Technical Design Document or Quick Reference > Guide? > > > > > Microsoft already tried to compete with STEAM, it was called Games for > > > windows - Live... and it sucked. Again they tried to charge a > > subscription > > > which failed epicly. > > > I much prefer engines that are written in C++, they are much MUCH more > > > powerful than having to 1) Learn the syntax/structure of the in-house > > > language 2) Hack your way round doing the simplest of things that you > > > could > > > do with open source C libraries. > > > > > > 2009/1/11 Nick <[email protected]> > > > > > >> I am not Valve, I do not work for Valve, but I like Valve, and like a > > >> good friend I like to point out where I think they go wrong. > > >> > > >> There is no such technical design document for source, available to > > >> the modders, but I suspect there is such a design document if you pay > > >> for a license. > > >> > > >> Valve is a good company, and has excellent people. But the top games > > >> released for source have been made exclusively by and for Valve. The > > >> source engine is powerful and highly adaptable, if you work for Valve. > > >> I think other engines are designed to be easier to understand because > > >> the other major game engines are being used by people outside the > > >> original company. Quake/id and Bioshock/ut3 and america's army/ut3 are > > >> some examples I can think of here. > > >> > > >> Source engine is powerful if you know how to use it, Valve people are > > >> the only ones who know how to use it properly. That isn't going to > > >> change unless Valve invests heavily in making it more open or > > >> documenting it more. ( not anytime within the next 3 years). > > >> > > >> UT3 engine is equally powerful, but epic games has gone to great > > >> lengths to make it easier to use, and highly documented. Also actively > > >> encourages scripting instead of forcing everyone to use c++ like valve > > >> does. Bioshock/Americas Army/Gears of War 2. Look at the material > > >> editor that comes with ue3 > > >> http://hourences.com/book/tutorialsue3mated.htm includes shaders also > > >> from almost one and half years ago! > > >> http://www.unrealtechnology.com/features.php?ref=editor > > >> > > >> I hope valve seriously thinks about open sourcing the tools, formats, > > >> and making the engine available on linux. Unless valve thinks it can > > >> exist only by relying on steam sales/distribution. Eventually > > >> microsoft will make steam obsolete(by creating a steamlike replacement > > >> for windows7) or buy valve out entirely, which is probably bad for > > >> most people working for valve, but good for the owners :P > > >> > > >> On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Walter Gray <[email protected]> > > >> wrote: > > >> > I want to preface this by saying I know it's probably a kind of > silly > > >> > thing to be asking for, but on the other hand I feel it would would > be > > >> > stupendously useful. > > >> > I'm looking for something akin to a Technical Design Document > for > > >> > the source engine, or at least the parts of it which are distributed > > >> > with the Source SDK. Really, any single document that lays out, in > a > > >> > concise fashion, the general structure of the most commonly used > > >> > systems, what base classes they use, and enough about how they are > > >> > supposed to work for someone to start messing with them. It seems > to > > >> > me > > >> > that the general approach for mod developers has been to use the > code > > >> > itself as the documentation and ask the community or check the wiki > if > > >> > they find something they don't understand. This, unfortunately, > means > > >> > that there's no easy way to get new developers on a team familiar > with > > >> > the engine, which is what I'm aiming to do. I've looked around, and > > >> > there doesn't seem to be anything like this. Am I missing > something, > > >> > or > > >> > does it not exist, and if it doesn't, why not? It seems like it's > the > > >> > kind of thing that would cut down on a lot of confusion for new mod > > >> > programmers and encourage 3rd party Source development in general. > > >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > >> please visit: > > >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > >> please visit: > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >> > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > -- http://www.pixelfaction.com AIM:ApeWithABrain _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
