I honestly don't see the need or the wisdom of having two separate pools of servers. Those of us that have been around the longest saw the disaster that adding a "custom" tab to the server browser was several years ago (of course, back then, then team was much more responsive to feedback and took that tab out again).
The whole thing can be as simplified as possible. Valve need do only two things: 1. After a new player had a minimum of time in the game, change the quickplay default setting from "official only" to "everything". 2. Alter the player's client blacklisting system to work across the board with both quickplay and the server browser. Those two things would fix everything that's broke, plain and simple. Those players that only want to play Vanilla TF2 can change those settings in quickplay. Players that encounter servers they don't like can blacklist them forever. I firmly believe it's really that simple. Adding anything overly complex like "server ratings" or any other changes would be overly complex and open to abuse. As far as re-invigorating the game, I also think Valve needs to do the following: - Completely overhaul the Hammer Map editor (with the power of today's PC's, the map editor should literally be a full-screen drag and drop interface that ANYONE should be able to use to create a map without knowing a single thing about entities, area portals, compiling, etc. - the editor should handle all the heavy lifting in the background). - Hold quarterly mapping & modding contests with REAL rewards for the content creators who win. (that would jump-start the mapping scene again). - Build new and innovative tools to encourage community integration with the game (to assist us in building new kinds of community leaderboards,etc.) On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 9:59 AM, Cats From Above <[email protected]> wrote: > @Supreet: I'm no help? Well that's quite interesting, because the last > time I checked I wasn't the one being shat on and told to shut his mouth > every time he opened it on this mailing list. Your earlier suggestion that > saturating the Quickplay pool with heavily-modded servers was the answer to > what ails some communities was nothing but the height of intellectual > bankruptcy. > > Contrary to your apparent belief, I am not some two-bit kid involved in a > Quickplay dependent community. My interest in this topic is purely out of > benevolence for the other operators out there who have been affected, on > one level or another, by the actions of a minority of misbehaving > communities. Interacting with charming folk like yourself is merely a bonus > on top of that original purpose. By the way, your community's website is > offline. Might want to deal with that instead of pissing around on this > mailing list, eh? > > To the other people on this mailing list. Has anyone considered the > possibility of getting the lines of distinction between servers redrawn? > That being, rather then dichotomising servers into "Official" and > "Community" classifications for Quickplay purposes, why not investigate the > plausibility of having Valve change that to "Vanilla" and "Modded" > classifications instead. > > What would you need to do to be eligible for the Vanilla pool? Simple, > don't have *any* addons loaded on your server. This can be easily enforced > on a technical level. The ability to late load source addons would also be > removed under this scheme. I feel that this is the only proposition which > Valve might give serious consideration to. The previous idea of "Why don't > Valve have people start out in official servers and then have them prompted > to try community servers" does nothing to address the cancerous minority > within the secondary Quickplay pool, hence I can't see Valve ever trying to > steer players into it. Getting completely vanilla servers out of the > secondary pool is possible however. > > I realise that my proposal means losing Sourcemod and Metamod *if* you > wanted to be classified as a "Vanilla" server for Quickplay purposes...but > this is the art of viable compromise. Certain functionality (Such as Global > banning, map changing for Moderators etc) could be preserved for "Vanilla" > servers via a log-feed driven system parsed by a daemon that feeds back the > appropriate RCON commands to server(s). There are things that could not be > replaced in this manner, such as reserved slots and the like, but I > strongly suspect that most communities would be willing to forgo those > luxuries if it meant securing a more stable flow of new life for their > community's servers. > > I would also like to see Valve make cl_disablehtmlmotd a protected client > variable. Too many communities have abused the ability to query this > variable as a means of treating players with HTML MOTDs disabled (And thus > services like Pinion etc) as second class citizens. I believe Valve would > agree that it needs to stop and that such was arguably one of the things > that made the rise of Pinion an annoyance for some players. > > Thoughts? > > On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 10:39 PM, Supreet Sahni <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> I am speaking for myself that's why I feel no need to bicker in threads >> like these every few weeks. Just providing suggestions to help out the kids >> who need help. >> >> Quickplay or no quickplay, my servers were not affected by this because >> its the way you run your servers and things you do for your community and >> people will stay. If you were nice, I would've given you some pointers ;) >> >> Apparently, a very low level of intellect I guess. There's too many >> emotional teenager kids on the mailing list these days. You are no help my >> dear friend. >> ------------------------------ >> From: [email protected] >> Sent: 2/10/2015 2:27 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: hlds Digest, Vol 46, Issue 25 >> >> Send hlds mailing list submissions to >> [email protected] >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> [email protected] >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> [email protected] >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of hlds digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Rethinking the community quickplay ban (Alexander Corn) >> 2. Re: Rethinking the community quickplay ban (Cats FromAbove) >> 3. Re: Rethinking the community quickplay ban (kletch1333 .) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2015 23:44:53 -0500 >> From: "Alexander Corn" <[email protected]> >> To: "'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'" >> <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> I?ve reached the point where I no longer lose sleep over this. At this >> point I don?t expect any growth of TF2. All I care about anymore is trying >> to keep my the people in my community around as long as they still care >> about TF2. Trying to convince Valve of anything is a waste of time for me. >> I?d have better luck arguing with a brick wall. >> >> >> >> Valve is dead. TF2 is dying. All I care about anymore is logging on from >> time to time to play some Dustbowl or payload or something. I liked trading >> for a while but even that is tedious and boring now that I have to alt-tab >> out of the game to check my email every time I want to swap a weapon. >> >> >> >> Valve used to make intelligent decisions. I don?t know what happened, but >> that company is no more. And it?s a damn shame. >> >> >> >> Alexander Corn >> >> ?Dr. McKay? >> >> <http://www.doctormckay.com> http://www.doctormckay.com >> >> >> >> From: [email protected] [mailto: >> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Andreas Willinger >> Sent: Monday, February 9, 2015 1:39 PM >> To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban >> >> >> >> So, we will let this thread die again? >> >> Great Valve, really great, you used to be a nice company. >> >> >> >> Von: [email protected] [mailto: >> [email protected]] Im Auftrag von Tim Anderson >> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 05. Februar 2015 22:12 >> An: [email protected]; [email protected] >> Betreff: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban >> >> >> >> To the TF2 team, >> >> >> >> It has now been over a year since the decision to essentially ban >> community servers from quickplay by defaulting to official ones. Here are >> some facts of what has happened since then. >> >> >> >> - Player gain dropped 4% from the year before. >> >> - UGC highlander teams dropped 17% >> >> - Highly reduced map variety from community servers. >> >> - Even top non-quickplay servers have drastically fewer players than in >> 2013. >> >> >> >> You may have guaranteed new players a vanilla experience, but this is >> ruining the experience for the rest. >> >> >> >> Maybe nothing is being done because you do not see enough complaints >> about this from reddit or spuf. This is because the problem is obvious when >> someone connects to a pay to win server while it is not as obvious when a >> server is dying over the span of several months because official ones are >> getting all the new players. >> >> >> >> Most of the people that I talked to even knew about this change so the >> thought about complaining about it never crossed their minds. But just >> because they never knew about it doesn't mean it wasn't a problem. >> >> >> >> I hope you realize that this change is doing more harm than good. It may >> have stopped some complaints but this is hurting TF2 in the long run. >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/hlds/attachments/20150209/4dfd208f/attachment-0001.html >> > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 15:19:32 +1030 >> From: Cats FromAbove <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban >> Message-ID: >> <calvbbdvdsgu4ceqrcu7p2cu+057f-8iugovjbsh5g-gk-tx...@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> >> Speak for yourself Supreet. I think most would agree that your adversarial >> stance on this matter is profoundly unhelpful for both yourself and other >> members of this mailiing list. I also wonder what level of intellect would >> be required to come to the conclusion that being relegated to the server >> browser entirely is somehow an improvement to the present situation. Far >> beyond my comprehension for sure. >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/hlds/attachments/20150210/2de2eef2/attachment-0001.html >> > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 20:26:32 +1100 >> From: "kletch1333 ." <[email protected]> >> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list >> <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban >> Message-ID: >> <cacuk6c_qybqpt94zguc2iadkcodngtxvs2afgsuzsxrlte8...@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> >> Hmmm? >> [email protected] >> >> On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 6:39 AM, Ahmed Kandeel <[email protected] >> > >> wrote: >> >> > In fact I have an idea that is even better than a petition if anyone >> would >> > like to hear it. But I'd rather keep it out of the mailing list. >> > >> > On 9 February 2015 at 19:35, Ahmed Kandeel <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > >> >> To be honest, I doubt any of us are going to get responses. I myself as >> >> have others have tried to bring this to the community's attention via >> >> Reddit. While support has been there, it has been too weak to bring >> about >> >> any major action. >> >> >> >> People who post about this on the new steam based forums for TF2 >> usually >> >> get shot down by certain players who love the change, merely because >> they >> >> worship Valve. >> >> >> >> My community is in limbo at the moment since we were never big enough >> to >> >> weather this storm. I am waiting for KF2 to change our fortunes. >> >> >> >> I'm quite sure hosting CS:GO would suffer the same fate and L4D never >> >> seemed popular enough or team/community based enough to actually garner >> >> enough new members. >> >> >> >> While I don't myself want to let this die, I feel we need a change of >> >> direction. It would be better to start some form of petition and >> deliver it >> >> to Valve rather than get upset over the mailing list. >> >> >> >> On 9 February 2015 at 18:38, Andreas Willinger <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >>> So, we will let this thread die again? >> >>> >> >>> Great Valve, really great, you used to be a nice company. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> *Von:* [email protected] [mailto: >> >>> [email protected]] *Im Auftrag von *Tim Anderson >> >>> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 05. Februar 2015 22:12 >> >>> *An:* [email protected]; [email protected] >> >>> *Betreff:* [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> To the TF2 team, >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> It has now been over a year since the decision to essentially ban >> >>> community servers from quickplay by defaulting to official ones. Here >> are >> >>> some facts of what has happened since then. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> - Player gain dropped 4% from the year before. >> >>> >> >>> - UGC highlander teams dropped 17% >> >>> >> >>> - Highly reduced map variety from community servers. >> >>> >> >>> - Even top non-quickplay servers have drastically fewer players than >> in >> >>> 2013. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> You may have guaranteed new players a vanilla experience, but this is >> >>> ruining the experience for the rest. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Maybe nothing is being done because you do not see enough complaints >> >>> about this from reddit or spuf. This is because the problem is >> obvious when >> >>> someone connects to a pay to win server while it is not as obvious >> when a >> >>> server is dying over the span of several months because official ones >> are >> >>> getting all the new players. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Most of the people that I talked to even knew about this change so the >> >>> thought about complaining about it never crossed their minds. But just >> >>> because they never knew about it doesn't mean it wasn't a problem. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> I hope you realize that this change is doing more harm than good. It >> may >> >>> have stopped some complaints but this is hurting TF2 in the long run. >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> >>> please visit: >> >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> > please visit: >> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> > >> > >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/hlds/attachments/20150210/086f60eb/attachment.html >> > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> >> End of hlds Digest, Vol 46, Issue 25 >> ************************************ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >
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