Maybe an issue for you and Valve to discuss in private? On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 8:32 AM, Essay Tew Phaun <[email protected]> wrote:
> The servers are all started as 32 player servers, sv_visiblemaxplayers is > set to 24 players. Once 23 players join the sv_visiblemaxplayers is set to > 32 players. The tag "increased_maxplayers" is then applied. This isn't a > violation of the tag rules, which is what it's showing we were delisted > for. > > On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Ross Bemrose <[email protected]> wrote: > > > "When the server is above 24 players" ? > > > > Doesn't that deserve some sort of explanation? Like, as in how are you > > adjusting the player count? > > > > > > On 2/17/2013 4:21 PM, Essay Tew Phaun wrote: > > > >> fwiw, I haven't appealed to neither Todd nor McKay to make these posts. > >> McKay has developed several of the plugins for our community and has > >> access > >> to our systems. I would hope it counts for something that a SourceMod > >> plugin approver is vouching for us. I really am at a loss for why this > >> delisting could have happened. We don't manually set tags anywhere and > we > >> don't attempt to remove tags. The server that got delisted runs pretty > >> much > >> vanilla. No modified respawn times, when bots are online they are > >> reflected > >> in the auto-added "bots" tag. When the server is above 24 players it is > >> reflected in "increased_maxplayers". I have emailed Tony, Eric, Fletcher > >> and Mike attempting to get an answer about this and will update the > thread > >> when I receive the answer, in case we're somehow breaking a rule, but I > >> have no earthly idea what that rule could be. This delisting seems to > have > >> happened shortly after this post. > >> > >> Here are the tags the currently delisted server has, which are the same > >> ones it would have had before the delisting: > >> > >> "sv_tags" = "SMDJ,_registered,bots,ctf,**gameME,replays" > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Todd Pettit <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >> I agree I have a good relationship with their community and the > >>> definitely > >>> obey all of valve's rules. > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Doctor McKay" <[email protected]> > >>> To: "Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list" < > >>> [email protected].**com <[email protected] > >> > >>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 3:51:26 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Reminder about server tags > >>> > >>> I can vouch for him in that he's not breaking any rules. > >>> > >>> Dr. McKay > >>> http://www.doctormckay.com > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Essay Tew Phaun > >>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 3:15 PM > >>> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Reminder about server tags > >>> > >>> Just wanted to say that we've had a server blacklisted for the reason: > >>> > >>> <message> > >>> Server browser not reporting required tags (e.g. increased_maxplayers, > >>> bots, etc) > >>> </message> > >>> > >>> And we've always obeyed the tag rules. We don't use any plugins that > aim > >>> to > >>> remove them and any features we use, such as bots and > >>> increased_maxplayers > >>> automatically change the sv_tags and we've made no attempts at all to > >>> remove them. This has to be a mistake on Valves part, the server of > ours > >>> which got blacklisted runs the exact same way our other servers run and > >>> they're not blacklisted. > >>> > >>> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 6:52 AM, Robert Paulson > >>> <[email protected]>wrote: > >>> > >>> You can see the number of players on the stats page. TF2 is always in > >>>>> the > >>>>> > >>>> top 3 or 4 games. > >>>> It's 2nd right now. > >>>> > >>>> Sure look at the games list during the least active part of the day > when > >>>> many of those players are idling in the only game with a huge > incentive > >>>> > >>> to > >>> > >>>> idle. Try looking at the list during peak hours. The number of TF2 > >>>> > >>> players > >>> > >>>> have stagnated and even dropped after 2 huge updates. > >>>> > >>>> There are or were big long threads on SPUF moaning about how badly > TF2 > >>>>> is > >>>>> > >>>> optimised and moaning about how sentry guns should be removed or such > >>>> and > >>>> such are overpowered > >>>> > >>>> There's always people complaining about anything. Again, I encourage > >>>> Fletcher to look at the evidence that people join fast respawn servers > >>>> with > >>>> hidden tags by the boat-load, and stay there all night. And they don't > >>>> do > >>>> it when tags are listed. This should tell you 2 things: there's a real > >>>> demand for faster respawn, and not being on quickplay is a huge > >>>> disadvntage. Again, I don't care > >>>> > >>>> The server software is free so I'm not sure what you bought. Was it > >>>>> > >>>> some > >>> > >>>> magic beans in exchange for a cow? :) > >>>> > >>>> I don't know about you but I purchased TF2 with the expectation that > >>>> servers would be moddable like previous Source games AND not be > >>>> relegated > >>>> to a ghetto deprived of new players. You really think people run > modded > >>>> servers without buying the game? There is no formal contract saying > that > >>>> server owners have any rights, but there is an unspoken one. And it is > >>>> up > >>>> to Valve how much they want to erode this good will so that future > games > >>>> don't end up like CS:GO. > >>>> > >>>> Anyone that has been looking at TF2 servers now knows that you are out > >>>> of > >>>> touch with what is happening right now. No one is using fake players > on > >>>> a > >>>> large scale anymore. Of course you wouldn't know given your 1 hour of > >>>> TF2 > >>>> per week. > >>>> > >>>> This will be my final response to you on this matter. Don't take a > lack > >>>> > >>> of > >>> > >>>> response to mean that anyone is convinced by your essay long tirades > >>>> > >>> about > >>> > >>>> how non-vanilla servers are worthless and that they all cheat. My only > >>>> purpose here was to notify Valve to look at the clear evidence. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 3:11 AM, dan <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On 14/02/2013 22:23, Robert Paulson wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Bring the facts, not your assumptions. Step outside your quickplay > >>>>>> > >>>>> bubble > >>>> > >>>>> once in a while and notice that there's been a huge drop in players > on > >>>>>> > >>>>> the > >>>> > >>>>> server browser. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> No there hasn't, not really. > >>>>> > >>>>> You can see the number of players on the stats page. TF2 is always in > >>>>> the > >>>>> top 3 or 4 games. > >>>>> It's 2nd right now. > >>>>> > >>>>> 51k peak today. It's not the highest it's ever been, but it's not the > >>>>> lowest either. > >>>>> > >>>>> Player numbers have always risen and fallen in between big updates > >>>>> appearing. That's nothing new. > >>>>> > >>>>> There is probably some seasonal variation, variation based on school > >>>>> holidays, and variation caused by other games being released on steam > >>>>> > >>>> too. > >>>> > >>>>> Case in point, it wasn't so long ago, just after Halloween, that > >>>>> Fletcher > >>>>> pointed out that some of the Valve servers were empty > >>>>> the lux ones they'd added. These servers are generally full now (with > >>>>> the > >>>>> exception of over night) > >>>>> I hop from one to another for hours and hours at a time. > >>>>> > >>>>> So I'd say your rumours of TF2's death are greatly exaggerated. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Given the few complaints about it until now, very few people care, > >>>>> and > >>>>> I > >>>>> > >>>>>> don't think I'm alone in not having our rights further eroded > >>>>>> > >>>>>> What "rights" are these? > >>>>> > >>>>> I think this thread exists because someone at Valve was reminding > >>>>> > >>>> people > >>> > >>>> about these tags, > >>>>> which I imagine precludes your idea that no one is still abusing them > >>>>> > >>>> (I'm > >>>> > >>>>> not sure why you think anyone needs to be smart or rich > >>>>> to do it? It's just a plugin and any buffoon can write a plugin. If > >>>>> > >>>> people > >>>> > >>>>> have paid significant money for them they must be out of their tree) > >>>>> > >>>>> Nor that there are no complaints about them. How do you suppose you > >>>>> would > >>>>> hear complaints? Why would someone complain > >>>>> to you? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> to the point where we can't even change the number of slots on our > >>>>> > >>>> server. > >>>> > >>>>> Changing the number of slots occasionally is not a problem I'm sure. > >>>>> > >>>>> Dynamically changing it to game the quickplay system or fool people > >>>>> browsing for 24 slot servers clearly is. > >>>>> > >>>>> This is my opinion. But I see no reason that won't be the rule though > >>>>> because the client lets you restrict servers listed by slot count and > >>>>> tells you, if you try to join a server with 32 players, what a load > of > >>>>> crap it will be (so don't tell me that's my opinion - it's part of > the > >>>>> > >>>> game) > >>>> > >>>>> I'll tell you why I think it's in the game. There are or were big > long > >>>>> threads on SPUF moaning about > >>>>> how badly TF2 is optimised and moaning about how sentry guns should > be > >>>>> removed or > >>>>> such and such are overpowered - and 9/10 times, after about 17 pages > of > >>>>> back and forth you'd discover it's someone playing on 32 man instant > >>>>> > >>>> spawn > >>>> > >>>>> servers that's > >>>>> decided the game is unbalanced or that is getting performance issues. > >>>>> > >>>>> So that's why I think the game tells you that 32 slots is a waste of > >>>>> > >>>> time. > >>>> > >>>>> But you can still do it, > >>>>> the game tells you that you're an idiot if you do. Not me, the game. > >>>>> > >>>>> But, how would the above work if the server you join can change the > >>>>> > >>>> player > >>>> > >>>>> count? > >>>>> Answer : it wouldn't. It would suck for anyone looking for 24 player > >>>>> servers > >>>>> if servers changed to 32 slots after they'd joined. > >>>>> > >>>>> So you can't cheat with your player counts. They should be legit. > >>>>> > >>>>> If you want 32 players on your server, run a 32 slot server. If you > >>>>> > >>>> want > >>> > >>>> 24, run 24. > >>>>> It's not that difficult to do and there's absolutely no reason at all > >>>>> to do otherwise. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Many of us > >>>>> > >>>>>> bought into TF2 knowing it would be moddable just to have the custom > >>>>>> tab > >>>>>> ghetto, quickplay favoritism, and the loss of attachable models all > >>>>>> > >>>>> forced > >>>> > >>>>> onto us. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The server software is free so I'm not sure what you bought. Was it > >>>>> > >>>> some > >>> > >>>> magic beans > >>>>> in exchange for a cow? :) > >>>>> > >>>>> Faking tags or player counts with or without plugins to game > quickplay > >>>>> or > >>>>> to trick people using the server browser is not "running a mod" > >>>>> so I don't really see what your point is here. There's nothing > stopping > >>>>> you from running a modded server. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Dan. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ______________________________****_________________ > >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>>>> please visit: > >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware. > >>>>> > >>>> **com/cgi-bin/mailman/**listinfo/**hlds_linux< > >>> > >>>> https://list.valvesoftware. > **com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux< > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux> > >>>> > > >>>> ______________________________**_________________ > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>>> please visit: > >>>> https://list.valvesoftware. > **com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux< > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux> > >>>> > >>>> ______________________________**_________________ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> https://list.valvesoftware. > **com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux< > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux> > >>> > >>> > >>> ______________________________**_________________ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> https://list.valvesoftware. > **com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux< > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux> > >>> > >>> ______________________________**_________________ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> https://list.valvesoftware. > **com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux< > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux> > >>> > >>> ______________________________**_________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux< > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux> > >> > > > > > > ______________________________**_________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux< > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux> > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > -- -- Regards, Tim Bagheri *Gamers United* *Administrator* This message and any attachments are confidential and are intended for the addressee only. _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
