I've mailed them privately, but there's no reason why I can't bring this to the attention of other server owners and then provide the resulting answer here as well.
On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Tim Bagheri <[email protected]> wrote: > Maybe an issue for you and Valve to discuss in private? > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 8:32 AM, Essay Tew Phaun <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > The servers are all started as 32 player servers, sv_visiblemaxplayers is > > set to 24 players. Once 23 players join the sv_visiblemaxplayers is set > to > > 32 players. The tag "increased_maxplayers" is then applied. This isn't a > > violation of the tag rules, which is what it's showing we were delisted > > for. > > > > On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Ross Bemrose <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > "When the server is above 24 players" ? > > > > > > Doesn't that deserve some sort of explanation? Like, as in how are you > > > adjusting the player count? > > > > > > > > > On 2/17/2013 4:21 PM, Essay Tew Phaun wrote: > > > > > >> fwiw, I haven't appealed to neither Todd nor McKay to make these > posts. > > >> McKay has developed several of the plugins for our community and has > > >> access > > >> to our systems. I would hope it counts for something that a SourceMod > > >> plugin approver is vouching for us. I really am at a loss for why this > > >> delisting could have happened. We don't manually set tags anywhere and > > we > > >> don't attempt to remove tags. The server that got delisted runs pretty > > >> much > > >> vanilla. No modified respawn times, when bots are online they are > > >> reflected > > >> in the auto-added "bots" tag. When the server is above 24 players it > is > > >> reflected in "increased_maxplayers". I have emailed Tony, Eric, > Fletcher > > >> and Mike attempting to get an answer about this and will update the > > thread > > >> when I receive the answer, in case we're somehow breaking a rule, but > I > > >> have no earthly idea what that rule could be. This delisting seems to > > have > > >> happened shortly after this post. > > >> > > >> Here are the tags the currently delisted server has, which are the > same > > >> ones it would have had before the delisting: > > >> > > >> "sv_tags" = "SMDJ,_registered,bots,ctf,**gameME,replays" > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Todd Pettit <[email protected]> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> I agree I have a good relationship with their community and the > > >>> definitely > > >>> obey all of valve's rules. > > >>> > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>> From: "Doctor McKay" <[email protected]> > > >>> To: "Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list" < > > >>> [email protected].**com < > [email protected] > > >> > > >>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 3:51:26 PM > > >>> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Reminder about server tags > > >>> > > >>> I can vouch for him in that he's not breaking any rules. > > >>> > > >>> Dr. McKay > > >>> http://www.doctormckay.com > > >>> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: Essay Tew Phaun > > >>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 3:15 PM > > >>> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list > > >>> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Reminder about server tags > > >>> > > >>> Just wanted to say that we've had a server blacklisted for the > reason: > > >>> > > >>> <message> > > >>> Server browser not reporting required tags (e.g. > increased_maxplayers, > > >>> bots, etc) > > >>> </message> > > >>> > > >>> And we've always obeyed the tag rules. We don't use any plugins that > > aim > > >>> to > > >>> remove them and any features we use, such as bots and > > >>> increased_maxplayers > > >>> automatically change the sv_tags and we've made no attempts at all to > > >>> remove them. This has to be a mistake on Valves part, the server of > > ours > > >>> which got blacklisted runs the exact same way our other servers run > and > > >>> they're not blacklisted. > > >>> > > >>> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 6:52 AM, Robert Paulson > > >>> <[email protected]>wrote: > > >>> > > >>> You can see the number of players on the stats page. TF2 is always > in > > >>>>> the > > >>>>> > > >>>> top 3 or 4 games. > > >>>> It's 2nd right now. > > >>>> > > >>>> Sure look at the games list during the least active part of the day > > when > > >>>> many of those players are idling in the only game with a huge > > incentive > > >>>> > > >>> to > > >>> > > >>>> idle. Try looking at the list during peak hours. The number of TF2 > > >>>> > > >>> players > > >>> > > >>>> have stagnated and even dropped after 2 huge updates. > > >>>> > > >>>> There are or were big long threads on SPUF moaning about how badly > > TF2 > > >>>>> is > > >>>>> > > >>>> optimised and moaning about how sentry guns should be removed or > such > > >>>> and > > >>>> such are overpowered > > >>>> > > >>>> There's always people complaining about anything. Again, I encourage > > >>>> Fletcher to look at the evidence that people join fast respawn > servers > > >>>> with > > >>>> hidden tags by the boat-load, and stay there all night. And they > don't > > >>>> do > > >>>> it when tags are listed. This should tell you 2 things: there's a > real > > >>>> demand for faster respawn, and not being on quickplay is a huge > > >>>> disadvntage. Again, I don't care > > >>>> > > >>>> The server software is free so I'm not sure what you bought. Was it > > >>>>> > > >>>> some > > >>> > > >>>> magic beans in exchange for a cow? :) > > >>>> > > >>>> I don't know about you but I purchased TF2 with the expectation that > > >>>> servers would be moddable like previous Source games AND not be > > >>>> relegated > > >>>> to a ghetto deprived of new players. You really think people run > > modded > > >>>> servers without buying the game? There is no formal contract saying > > that > > >>>> server owners have any rights, but there is an unspoken one. And it > is > > >>>> up > > >>>> to Valve how much they want to erode this good will so that future > > games > > >>>> don't end up like CS:GO. > > >>>> > > >>>> Anyone that has been looking at TF2 servers now knows that you are > out > > >>>> of > > >>>> touch with what is happening right now. No one is using fake players > > on > > >>>> a > > >>>> large scale anymore. Of course you wouldn't know given your 1 hour > of > > >>>> TF2 > > >>>> per week. > > >>>> > > >>>> This will be my final response to you on this matter. Don't take a > > lack > > >>>> > > >>> of > > >>> > > >>>> response to mean that anyone is convinced by your essay long tirades > > >>>> > > >>> about > > >>> > > >>>> how non-vanilla servers are worthless and that they all cheat. My > only > > >>>> purpose here was to notify Valve to look at the clear evidence. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 3:11 AM, dan <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> On 14/02/2013 22:23, Robert Paulson wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Bring the facts, not your assumptions. Step outside your quickplay > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> bubble > > >>>> > > >>>>> once in a while and notice that there's been a huge drop in players > > on > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> the > > >>>> > > >>>>> server browser. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> No there hasn't, not really. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> You can see the number of players on the stats page. TF2 is always > in > > >>>>> the > > >>>>> top 3 or 4 games. > > >>>>> It's 2nd right now. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> 51k peak today. It's not the highest it's ever been, but it's not > the > > >>>>> lowest either. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Player numbers have always risen and fallen in between big updates > > >>>>> appearing. That's nothing new. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> There is probably some seasonal variation, variation based on > school > > >>>>> holidays, and variation caused by other games being released on > steam > > >>>>> > > >>>> too. > > >>>> > > >>>>> Case in point, it wasn't so long ago, just after Halloween, that > > >>>>> Fletcher > > >>>>> pointed out that some of the Valve servers were empty > > >>>>> the lux ones they'd added. These servers are generally full now > (with > > >>>>> the > > >>>>> exception of over night) > > >>>>> I hop from one to another for hours and hours at a time. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> So I'd say your rumours of TF2's death are greatly exaggerated. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Given the few complaints about it until now, very few people > care, > > >>>>> and > > >>>>> I > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> don't think I'm alone in not having our rights further eroded > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> What "rights" are these? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I think this thread exists because someone at Valve was reminding > > >>>>> > > >>>> people > > >>> > > >>>> about these tags, > > >>>>> which I imagine precludes your idea that no one is still abusing > them > > >>>>> > > >>>> (I'm > > >>>> > > >>>>> not sure why you think anyone needs to be smart or rich > > >>>>> to do it? It's just a plugin and any buffoon can write a plugin. If > > >>>>> > > >>>> people > > >>>> > > >>>>> have paid significant money for them they must be out of their > tree) > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Nor that there are no complaints about them. How do you suppose you > > >>>>> would > > >>>>> hear complaints? Why would someone complain > > >>>>> to you? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> to the point where we can't even change the number of slots on > our > > >>>>> > > >>>> server. > > >>>> > > >>>>> Changing the number of slots occasionally is not a problem I'm > sure. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Dynamically changing it to game the quickplay system or fool people > > >>>>> browsing for 24 slot servers clearly is. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> This is my opinion. But I see no reason that won't be the rule > though > > >>>>> because the client lets you restrict servers listed by slot count > and > > >>>>> tells you, if you try to join a server with 32 players, what a load > > of > > >>>>> crap it will be (so don't tell me that's my opinion - it's part of > > the > > >>>>> > > >>>> game) > > >>>> > > >>>>> I'll tell you why I think it's in the game. There are or were big > > long > > >>>>> threads on SPUF moaning about > > >>>>> how badly TF2 is optimised and moaning about how sentry guns should > > be > > >>>>> removed or > > >>>>> such and such are overpowered - and 9/10 times, after about 17 > pages > > of > > >>>>> back and forth you'd discover it's someone playing on 32 man > instant > > >>>>> > > >>>> spawn > > >>>> > > >>>>> servers that's > > >>>>> decided the game is unbalanced or that is getting performance > issues. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> So that's why I think the game tells you that 32 slots is a waste > of > > >>>>> > > >>>> time. > > >>>> > > >>>>> But you can still do it, > > >>>>> the game tells you that you're an idiot if you do. Not me, the > game. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> But, how would the above work if the server you join can change the > > >>>>> > > >>>> player > > >>>> > > >>>>> count? > > >>>>> Answer : it wouldn't. It would suck for anyone looking for 24 > player > > >>>>> servers > > >>>>> if servers changed to 32 slots after they'd joined. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> So you can't cheat with your player counts. They should be legit. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> If you want 32 players on your server, run a 32 slot server. If you > > >>>>> > > >>>> want > > >>> > > >>>> 24, run 24. > > >>>>> It's not that difficult to do and there's absolutely no reason at > all > > >>>>> to do otherwise. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Many of us > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> bought into TF2 knowing it would be moddable just to have the > custom > > >>>>>> tab > > >>>>>> ghetto, quickplay favoritism, and the loss of attachable models > all > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> forced > > >>>> > > >>>>> onto us. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> The server software is free so I'm not sure what you bought. Was > it > > >>>>> > > >>>> some > > >>> > > >>>> magic beans > > >>>>> in exchange for a cow? :) > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Faking tags or player counts with or without plugins to game > > quickplay > > >>>>> or > > >>>>> to trick people using the server browser is not "running a mod" > > >>>>> so I don't really see what your point is here. There's nothing > > stopping > > >>>>> you from running a modded server. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> -- > > >>>>> Dan. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> ______________________________****_________________ > > >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > >>>>> please visit: > > >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware. > > >>>>> > > >>>> **com/cgi-bin/mailman/**listinfo/**hlds_linux< > > >>> > > >>>> https://list.valvesoftware. > > **com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux< > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux> > > >>>> > > > >>>> ______________________________**_________________ > > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > >>>> please visit: > > >>>> https://list.valvesoftware. > > **com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux< > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux> > > >>>> > > >>>> ______________________________**_________________ > > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > >>> please visit: > > >>> https://list.valvesoftware. > > **com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux< > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ______________________________**_________________ > > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > >>> please visit: > > >>> https://list.valvesoftware. > > **com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux< > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux> > > >>> > > >>> ______________________________**_________________ > > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > >>> please visit: > > >>> https://list.valvesoftware. > > **com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux< > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux> > > >>> > > >>> ______________________________**_________________ > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > >> please visit: > > >> https://list.valvesoftware. > **com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux< > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux> > > >> > > > > > > > > > ______________________________**_________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > https://list.valvesoftware. > **com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux< > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > -- > -- > Regards, > > > Tim Bagheri > > *Gamers United* > *Administrator* > > > This message and any attachments are confidential and are intended for the > addressee only. > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
