If Valve provides you a server program for free, you have no entitlements or rights. You do what they say, run things the way they want them to be run, or they disallow you from running it. It's simple really; they clearly don't wish servers to be filled by quick play traffic only to have the parameters of the game changed once they're full. Is that so difficult to understand? Do they need to outline this in great detail in a document? What server owners' "rights" could be violated by this? On Mar 6, 2013 5:14 PM, "Robert Paulson" <thepauls...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > People get arrested all the time in every first world country for not > following the spirit of the law. Jfyi. > > There is a difference between being arrested and convicted. You can get > arrested for not breaking any rule at all. Jfyi. > > > Show me the document that outlines the "rights" of server owners. > > Rights are not always engraved on an old piece of parchment or a thousand > page document. In the case of a game, it is anything that Valve does not > take action against or even provides people an easy way to do it. > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:58 PM, j m <zooter...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hilarious. Show me the document that outlines the "rights" of server > > owners. I have several servers myself and don't remember seeing my > "rights" > > described anywhere. > > On Mar 6, 2013 4:49 PM, "Robert Paulson" <thepauls...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > It seems like people on the internet have issues reading (what a big > > > surprise), so I am going to try to keep this as short as possible. > > > > > > I am repeating myself because I have problems with people in this > mailing > > > list not even playing TF2 anymore trying to ruin other people's > favorite > > > settings. And it is funny seeing 24-slot server owners trying anything > to > > > get their competitors banned. You know who you are. > > > > > > 1. Servers were mistakenly banned for a mistake on Valve's part. They > did > > > not know that changing sv_visiblemaxplayers after startup does not set > a > > > tag. Anyone that changed this setting was banned because Valve thought > it > > > set a tag but it didn't. This includes unarguably legitimate uses like > > > reserved slots. Thus the bans were rightfully removed. > > > > > > 2. Fletcher himself said "But it’s not ban worthy *and I think it’d be > > > straying into a grey area on our part to take action against it." > > > > > > 3. In no first world country has anyone ever been convicted for not > > > following the "spirit of the law". > > > > > > 4. The root of the problem is that quickplay is Valve's backhanded way > to > > > get the community to accept the "custom tabs" ghetto under the premise > > that > > > quickplay is only for a few noobs. Anyone that actually runs a server > can > > > tell you that having quickplay will make or break any server close to > > > vanilla. Remove the penalty so servers can compete EQUALLY as it should > > > have been, or have an opt-in for 24 slots only. > > > > > > 5. The truth is that larger servers are popular, but quickplay is too > > much > > > of an advantage. Valve has the data to confirm this, and will be doing > a > > > disservice to themselves by penalizing them at a time when MvM is > running > > > out of steam to keep TF2 popular. If larger servers were not popular, > > > people wouldn't keep joining, and thus it is a self-correcting problem. > > > > > > Get rid of this quickplay penalty and level the playing field. TF2 was > > made > > > in 2007 computers can handle more than 24 slots now. > > > > > > 6. The quickplay FAQ says > > > > > > Are there any server side mods that will disqualify me from Quickplay > > since > > > some do not change sv_tags? No, we are not automatically disqualifying > > > servers for server side mods. If the mods results in a better or worse > > > player experience, that will be reflected in the back-end server score. > > > > > > So whatever happened to this? If Valve is banning servers from > quickplay > > > for changing sv_visiblemaxplayers, then I would request Fletcher to > also > > > remove the following: > > > > > > - Reserved slots: Ruins my vanilla experience by getting randomly > kicked. > > > - Donation benefits: Ruins my vanilla experience when I can't kill > > donators > > > end of round or have autobalance immunity. I already paid Valve and > those > > > hat modelers, why do server owners have the audacity to ask me for any > > more > > > of my money? > > > - Class limits: I don't care if my team has 10 snipers. If I can't > play a > > > class, it isn't a vanilla experience. > > > - Alltalk: I really need to strategize with quickplay noobs, and > alltalk > > > ruins my vanilla experience. > > > - Ability to change maps: As a player, I am entitled to an accurate > > > indication that the servers I am sent to only has quickplay maps or > that > > > the map doesn't switch right after I join. > > > > > > F*ck these server owners right? Who the do they think they are ruining > > the > > > way I want to play TF2? This is satire if you couldn't tell. All I see > > here > > > is a constant erosion of the rights of server owners. Valve penalizing > > > larger servers while letting pay-to-win servers off the hook is a sad > > > perversion of priorities. > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Rudy Bleeker <rblee...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > I kinda hoped this thread was over, but apparently it's not. In that > > > > case let me chip in as well. I also kind of agree with Dan. It's all > > > > about the difference between the exact wording of the rules and their > > > > intention. Some people on here would do well to read up on that, so > > > > for your convenience: > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_and_spirit_of_the_law > > > > > > > > In this case I think it's clear that with the quickplay system Valve > > > > intended to give Team Fortress 2 players a predictable and constant > > > > game experience. So farming the quickplay system for traffic to your > > > > server and then changing that server to something that's not eligible > > > > for quickplay is wrong, no matter how the rules were written. I > > > > sincerely hope this practice will stop and that the servers in > > > > question will be banned (again). > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:55 PM, Game-Over < > gameover.serv...@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have to say I'm with Dan on this one, and he often seems to stand > > > > alone, > > > > > so I felt I had to say something. > > > > > > > > > > Having monitored this group for nearly 2 years, I have come to the > > > > > conclusion that it is mostly populated > > > > > by youngsters, who have no life experience to speak of. The excuses > > > used > > > > > here by some that "Valve never > > > > > said we couldn't do this" or "there's nothing in the rules that say > > we > > > > can't > > > > > do this", leads me to believe that > > > > > they rely on parents to tell them when they are doing wrong and > they > > > > simply > > > > > can't work it out for themselves. > > > > > > > > > > This latest trend of using a plugin to switch on Quickplay up to 24 > > > > players, > > > > > and then when at 24/24 switch off Quickplay > > > > > and convert the server to 32 players, instaspawn, with the argument > > > that > > > > > "tell us where we are breaking the Policy of > > > > > Truth rules", is quite frankly mind boggling. Lets just forget > about > > > > those > > > > > players who thought they were joining a > > > > > stock TF2 server and who end up with 24/7 32 man 2fort spammage, > > > because > > > > > it's fine as Valve never said that > > > > > using this particular plugin this was wrong. No Heroes (cough). > > > > > > > > > > I blame Pinion as it has opened the gates for children to run > > servers. > > > > Good > > > > > old fashioned honesty, decency and integrity, > > > > > not to mention thinking of the players and not your pockets. You > > learn > > > > these > > > > > things as adults. > > > > > > > > > > Why Valve backtracked on their latest purge of bans is beyond me. > > They > > > > have > > > > > lost their backbone and I'm extremely > > > > > disappointed. I hope they find their backbone again soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 06/03/2013 20:11, dan wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> On 06/03/2013 18:18, Gordon Reynolds wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I'm glad we decided to take the high road here and didn't resort > to > > > > >>> calling > > > > >>> each other scumbags based on how they want to run their video > game > > > > server > > > > >>> :) > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Yeah his was such an erudite and polite message. > > > > >> Sheesh. > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > > > > please visit: > > > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Idleness is not doing nothing. Idleness is being free to do anything. > > > > - Floyd Dell > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > > > please visit: > > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
