Is there some reason why IMail should be run on a machine running Windows Server 2003 Web Edition? We use Windows Server 2000 (simply because that's what's on the machine). But presumably you could run it on regular Win2000 / XP systems too? For about a year we ran a copy of Lotus Notes Domino on a machine with Windows 2000 pro client software - and it seemed to run just fine. But I would be intrigued to know whether we were breaking some formal or informal rules / guidelines...
But to be candid, if IMail does need specific versions of Windows Server to run, and MS is as perniticky as it seems about things (like saying you can't run IMAP services of any kind on Web Edition etc.), it just seems to be a powerful argument for getting either Apple Server (cheaper than Windows Server in UK if you have the hardware to run it on) which comes with Cyrus IMAP / POP, Postfix and Squirrel Mail with easy to use front end, or a SUSE WebMail server (or OpenExchange), or a build your own a Linux box running the same set of apps for free (e.g. from Gentoo.org).
I've got no particular beef with Microsoft software, but it sounds like unless you really really have to deal with them MS is becoming as obscure and bureacratic as IBM used to be. For example, (off topic, I know, apologies in advance) we stopped using MSN Messenger about a year ago when MS announced that their interpretation of copyright meant they had copyright on anything you type in Messenger: in the US it was protested, and MS stopped applying this interpretation for US users - but in rest of world ... well we appear to have less rights to privacy. We don't suppose for a moment that what we type will ever be used by MS, but why should we even have to worry about it. When there is a choice of providers, we head for the one less difficult to deal with every time. We use Yahoo! Messenger currently as a result - which we think is less harmful.... By the sound of it, we may be headed to another provider for server software too, soon...
Regards
Gavin Lawrie
John Tolmachoff (Lists) wrote:
You got to love arguments like this. A vendor provides a product for a purpose. You are expecting and raising a flag and trumpeting saying I have a right to do this and this and this with it.We would all be much better off if people would quit trying to get away with things and get rid of this "IT IS MY RIGHT" attitude. I mean really, how ****** can you be? How do you perceive that Microsoft is trying to control the Internet by making a reduced price version of its newest server OS and in doing so CORRECTLY limiting what the reduced price version can and can not do? Pay less, get less. Pay more, get more. John Tolmachoff Engineer/Consultant/Owner eServices For You-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:IMail_Forum- [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Bruce Barnes Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 3:13 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [IMail Forum] Windows Server 2003 Web edition debate. The DEFENSE to using Imail on any machine you like . . . I can't wait for the Justice Department and the State's Attorneys of those States who went up against Microsoft, to interpret this situation. It would seem like this would be a RESTRAINT OF TRADE to force someone to purchase a different version of a SERVER software when they are installing another product that provides a SEPERATE function of a software, ie: "Imail, provides a proprietary function that is inherent to the software that is installed and is not dependent on the server operating system software." The argument to use in defense of that is that the Imail web messaging product is not a web server, but an extension of the one of the core Imail function of mail boxes. To quote John Tolmachoff, from another post: "There is no way to "port" the MS IIS POP3 service and mail boxes to a web page", and this makes the Imail product a totally separate functioning product. Therefore, the defense strategy becomes: IIS and SMTP, POP III are provided by the Microsoft Product. Imail provides an ADDITIONAL and distinctly SEPERATE SMTP and a WEB INTERFACE for the sole purpose of allowing the sending, receiving and reading of e-mail, and is therefore outside the control of Microsoft, and cannot be prohibited from being installed on the same machine because such a prohibition is the equivalent of a restraint of being placed on the internet, which is made up of the interconnection of hundreds of thousands of equipment and data connections that are owned by the individuals, organizations, companies, governments and agencies that control and maintain their individually owned, leased or otherwise acquired equipment. Because the servers that compromise the Internet and provide SMTP, POP III and WEB services are now and have been since the first day of web hosting and e-mail delivery, running operating systems other than those provided by Microsoft, and because Imail provides an alternative to SMTP and WEB INTERFACING for the sole purpose of delivering e-mail, the ability to install Imail onto the same machine as Microsoft products is not dependant on a decision by Microsoft or any of their attorneys, but by the individual end-user of the Imail product and the fact that it may or many not operate in harmony with any other product installed on the same machine. Furthermore, since the Internet is not owned by either Microsoft, nor any Country, nor any Government, nor any individual nor by anyone else who has any authority to require anyone connecting to the Internet run any particular software and/or hardware on any machine that is physically or electrically connected to the internet, Microsoft cannot either demand that any particular product is used on any such machine, nor can they prohibit any product from being run on any such machine that is connected to, or a part of, the Internet. IE: Microsoft may be able to tell us how many users can be connected to a server product. They may be able to tell us what we have to pay for the purchase and use of their products, but I think both the Justice Department and the lower courts would be hard pressed to hold up their argument of exclusivity that would mandate that their server software must run on a separate machine from another product, ie: Imail, that runs without causing any interference to their product. Microsoft can say anything they want to in an EULA, but it is up to the Courts to interpret the enforceability of that EULA and, in light of recent court decisions, in this case, Microsoft may have gone too far. This will end up in Court and I am certain the Justice Department will, once again, rule in the favor of the People. Bruce Barnes ChicagoNetTech Inc -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Tolmachoff (Lists) Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 19:37 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [IMail Forum] Windows Server 2003 Web edition debate. Fuel for the Windows Server 2003 Web edition debate. After several hours of phone calls, dozens of e-mails and a number of faxes over the last 2 weeks, here is the result of my conversations with a MS Gold Certified partner and a senior MS licensing manager who contacted and obtained a cursory review by a MS lawyer who stated that a company using Web edition as outlined below "would be in the last group looked at of those groups with other applications installed on Windows Server 2003 Web Edition for violations and which any final determination of legality would almost certainly have to be determined in a court of law": 1. No application can be installed on Web edition that will add features/functions beyond what MS has included. 2. AV software to protect the server and information flowing to it and out of it is allowed, as that is considered a part of securing the server. 3. Applications which enhance, but not extend, features included by MS are allowed. In relation to Imail and related add-ons and features, this is what was concluded: 1. Imail can be installed. 2. Only connections allowed to Imail is SMTP and POP3. Those functions are included by MS, and by installing Imail and using the SMTP and POP3 services of Imail, you are providing an enhanced version of what MS supplied. IMAP4, Web Messaging, Web Calendaring, Finger and WhoIS services can not be used, as there is no supplied equivalent MS service on the server. 3. Only database that can be used is the Imail database. An external ODBC database can not be used, as MS IIS POP3 users are local only. Yes, you can use an external ODBC data source Web Edition, but not for the SMTP or POP3 services, as there is no matching way that is possible with the MS SMTP or POP3 functions. Also, using an external ODBC data source would extend the POP3 feature, not just enhance. 4. Imail AV can be installed and used as that is part of securing the server and information flowing into and out of it. 5. Imail Anti-Spam can be used. In the IIS SMTP service, there is what is called Event Sinks. These are VBS scripts that can scan and take action on messages flowing through the SMTP service. 6. Declude Hi-Jack can be installed, as that is tracking IP addresses and that is possible in the MS SMTP service through Event Sinks and the IIS SMTPSVCx logs. 7. Declude Virus can be installed for the same reason in #5 above. 8. Declude JunkMail can be installed for the same reason in #6 above. MY CONCLUSION: If you are only using Imail for gateway service (Store and Forward) or only allowing users to connect via POP3 AND only using the Imail database (registry) then Imail is allowed and usable. BTW, all 4 persons I talked to or were involved in this discussion made it very clear their names were never to be mentioned. That was a solid statement that came directly from the lawyer. Figures. John Tolmachoff Engineer/Consultant/Owner eServices For You To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html List Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/ To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html List Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html List Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/
