> >The question of whether a DDoS attack is a "sin" is at hand. > > Morality is not involved.
But it is for some that have responded, which is why I addressed it. I'm not sure I'd remove morality from it, since (my opinion, obviously) one might say that as functioning, reasonable members of a civilized society, we check our "moral compasses" in ALL decisions we make in life. I think it could be argued that the question "is this right or wrong" should be a part of every decision, including the decision to support what Lycos is doing, and those that participate. > Our MXs cheeks have been getting > slapped silly > for years. The Lycos screensaver tactics is a chance to slap back, with > precision, in fully justifiable self-defense. We're in agreement on this, as I was in agreement with you in an earlier post. > > vigilantism in self-defense makes sense, is defensible in the absence of > enforced laws. I'm sure others might disagree, probably on equally acceptable moral grounds. I'm not sure they can equate vigilantism with self-defense as easily, since they really are two different things entirely. They are only tied together here quite loosely, since "self-defense" implies an active attack from a specific attacker, while the vigilantism solution being provided may not necessarily attack the specific attacker you are dealing with, but a more "broad" type of attacker, called "spammers". Some are not willing to paint with quite as broad a brush. (Note that in actuality, I personally agree with your statement...) And since there's a potential that accuracy and controls may not be in place, that is probably making some folks uncomfortable. > > >(somehow I knew religion would end up in this!!) > > That's was your choice. religion/morality doesn't apply here. Well, my choice and perhaps indirectly the choice of a few others here too... by discussing the ethics of the solution. Again, I think it could be argued that ethics should come into play to some extent with every decision we as humans make... otherwise we're simply slaves to our firing neurons, emotions and instincts. Perhaps *religion* doesn't apply, but I'm not convinced that morality or ethics has no place here, and in this situation in particular, since ethics are usually a factor in most human decisions. Case in point... if Lycos made a 180 and started saying that the system would be fully automated, and that no humans would be involved, and that all links in ALL spam that they use as the basis for their victim database are legitimate targets without manual verification of the target site, many would pipe up and say "that's not right... that's wrong.... it has too much potential to involve innocent victims". The right/wrong part of that statement is where the moral/ethical compass has been reviewed by the person making the statement... making ethics part of the deal here. > In your religious view, is standing still while getting beat to [EMAIL PROTECTED] a > "virtue" or "values". Is self-defense wrong? Also known as the classic "turn the other cheek" question. And philosophically, that question is by nature a morality/ethical question, I think... I'm not sure I clearly defined in my posts my religious view, or even made my particular religious view a factor... I posed a couple different views, as a device of comparison. And I think I leaned more towards one view, but no more so than flat-out saying I also support what Lycos is doing. It's clear where you and I, and a few others that have chimed in, stand... we support this method of dealing with spammer websites.... and the clarity of my position on that somewhat provides an insight on my religious position. It would probably be counter-productive to begin discussion each person's particular reglious views except (perhaps) in how they related to the 100% right-or-wrong view of what Lycos is doing. In a way, your belief (or in this case, lack of belief?) in the "turning the other cheek" question has actually clearly defined your moral/ethical position... that what Lycos is doing is fine is not amoral or unethical, because it could be considered a form of self-defense. You do have an ethical/moral position on this, in a way... you feel it's right to use Lycos' method because it's wrong to turn the other cheek in a lawless environment... which is the same position I happen to hold too. But I don't think anyone here is afraid to at least consider how other people may view this solution as something different than simply self-defense. > > >Boy, I've wandered... > > Exactly. Everything in life is not a moral heaven/hell > issue. Self-defense is not a "sin" in any religion I know of. > And try to > stop spammers, as a class of attackers, from slapping me silly > is self-defense. I like, and agree with, your position. IMO, perhaps everything is not a heaven/hell issue, but since the "ethical" question of "is this a right or wrong thing to do" by nature enters into each decision we make (or at, least is SHOULD enter into each decision, again IMO), it's perfectly okay to discuss and not rule ethics out entirely. You do not randomly carry out DDoS attacks against machines you know about on the internet, because you feel it is wrong... that's an ethical/moral stance. (Some idiots do not have such ethical fortitude.) But you do feel that a DDoS attack on a spammer's website is NOT wrong, and for (what I believe to be) good reasons. I would counter that you have an ethical/moral position on the issue, and therefore others do too... which is why ethics/morality really IS okay to discuss here. Not flaming, just presenting points of view. Again, Len, I happen to agree with your position on the Lycos solution! :) > > Len > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > http://IMGate.MEIway.com : free anti-spam gateway, runs on > 1000's of sites > > > To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html > List Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/ To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html List Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/
