I think one thing that people don't quite grasp is how annoying the current bundling mechanism is:
* if a plugin is bundled, it will be installed automatically. * you can disable it manually, so it can be "uninstalled" but it will still be in the JENKINS_HOME/plugins directory and show in the installed plugins screen (not a major annoyance) * you can upgrade/downgrade it by either using the update centre or manually uploading the specific version... When that happens a .pinned file gets created. * once there is a .pinned file then the plugin will never be overwritten by the bundled one. So what can happen to your instance? * you upgrade a bundled plugin last year... Now you upgrade Jenkins and it crashes because the pinned file is causing the older version to remain... And other plugins depend on the newer bundled version. That is one of the worse ones. Ideally the pinned file should have been including some Jenkins version info so that when upgrading Jenkins the pinned plugins can be unpinned if necessary. However it seems hard to grandfather in that concept now... In any case there is the question of what plugins should be bundled... If any... I think we could create two tiers of plugins: * plugins that make a commitment to be compatible with "current" Jenkins releases, cutting releases as necessary and more importantly, testing compatiblity * everything else. Bundled plugins could only come fr the first tier... Perhaps with some other criteria to select applicability On Wednesday, September 2, 2015, Stephen Connolly < [email protected]> wrote: > For me, the issue is *forced* bundling. If we switch to optional bundling > with a wizard to allow selection that seems less evil. > > Though the risk them becomes everyone and their mother wanting another > plugin in the optionally bundled set and before long Jenkins.war comes with > 1100+ plugins optionally bundled. > > On Wednesday, September 2, 2015, Michael Neale <[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: > >> Yes the unbundling if things sounds doors sound like a painful idea, but >> that brings us back to the problem of a consensus of what is bundled. >> >> On Wed, 2 Sep 2015 at 7:04 am James Nord <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Lets get something working and then see how we can evolve it to fill >>>> gaps. >>>> >>> >>> Well I can see the headlines now if you release with that in mind >>> "Jenkins, marketed as the leading CI/CD software, no longer >>> supports JUnit the tool used in 99.9% of all development" <snip>out of >>> the box </snip> <- cos you know journalists like to make good headlines >>> >>> So the solution doesn't need to be big flashy or even polished, but it >>> needs to provide these users a way to get a system into a state that is no >>> worse than what they would have today (and ideally it should be in a better >>> state) - and it IMO needs to be there at the same time that the new plugin >>> startup wizard thing lands. >>> >>> On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 10:22:48 PM UTC+1, Tom Fennelly wrote: >>> >>>> It's been a while since I installed eclipse simply because I hated it >>>> and moved away from it. My experience of the litany of download options was >>>> the same as Mic's i.e. pissed off after wasting 30 mins waiting on the >>>> wrong download to complete. >>>> >>>> I think we could engineer multiple options for this and they'd all be >>>> wrong for a %age of cases, so arguing one set of %ages over another is just >>>> moving the problem somewhere else and seems like a waste of time to me. >>>> >>>> What's the easiest option to get started on that works for a high %age >>>> of people? Lets get something working and then see how we can evolve it to >>>> fill gaps. >>>> >>> On 1 September 2015 at 21:48, Michael Neale <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>> I agree, I always dreaded going to eclipse.org and worrying I have just >>>>> downloaded 300Meg of the wrong thing. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 1:30 PM Baptiste Mathus <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> 2015-09-01 20:08 GMT+02:00 Jesse Glick <[email protected]>: >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 12:30 PM, James Nord <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> > Eclipse.org >>>>>>> > provides "distributions" you can get the basic IDE and add the >>>>>>> plugins you >>>>>>> > want - or you can get the Java version, or the J2EE version, or >>>>>>> the PHP >>>>>>> > version... >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, actually Eclipse is somehow backing away a bit from that model. >>>>>> I think that indeed prepackaged versions leads to big complexity and user >>>>>> frustration since not a lot of people will actually find the exact things >>>>>> you need. >>>>>> >>>>>> And technically: downloading + installing additional things may not >>>>>> be as-well tested and multiply combinatorials. Hence writing a /wizard/ >>>>>> (called oomph in Eclipse [1]) that works is currently a ongoing work (and >>>>>> is already working but still needs battle testing I guess). >>>>>> >>>>>> [1] https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/installer.php >>>>>> -- Baptiste >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>> the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/jenkinsci-dev/kRobm-cxFw8/unsubscribe >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CANWgJS5UFH3C00BpmbR6fYaZr1f_TSwVX2FE8WhEUhB9PY%2BXbA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CANWgJS5UFH3C00BpmbR6fYaZr1f_TSwVX2FE8WhEUhB9PY%2BXbA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>>> Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/jenkinsci-dev/kRobm-cxFw8/unsubscribe >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAKVMTi4u1Z8POdikNK%3DFrOTQbL8aveiZ02YEZ-2sFwrjdmCiKw%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAKVMTi4u1Z8POdikNK%3DFrOTQbL8aveiZ02YEZ-2sFwrjdmCiKw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>> Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/jenkinsci-dev/kRobm-cxFw8/unsubscribe. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>> [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/6a434c93-65ff-491c-bf2d-0c968dfee10b%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/6a434c93-65ff-491c-bf2d-0c968dfee10b%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Jenkins Developers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAKVMTi5zfcmy0UAhw%3DK1u5kuLkRycxe5xwoqyJz6DNTunDmTwA%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAKVMTi5zfcmy0UAhw%3DK1u5kuLkRycxe5xwoqyJz6DNTunDmTwA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > -- > Sent from my phone > -- Sent from my phone -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CA%2BnPnMy5GsJ%3DfGDVLTG4AsjvBX3%2BzNUajjfRq9_O54K%2BaeiU5Q%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
