On 19.09.19 20:58, Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote: > Am Donnerstag, 19. September 2019, 19:35:53 CEST schrieb Nate Graham: >> On 9/19/19 11:05 AM, Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote: >>> More, I see all those "strikes" are substitutes for people actually >>> handling or at least for postponing their own handling. Do you really >>> need politicians to decide for you that you should look at what you >>> consume and do and what harm it does to others, and then adopt things >>> accordingly? Are you really all helpless victims of the bad evil system? >>> Not responsible for the damage you create, because "politicians did not >>> put a bin here, their fault that I drop my garbage on the ground"? >> >> It's a common polluter tactic to get people to internalize the idea that >> each individual must take action on their own. And we should take >> individual action! > > So you have internalized that? ;) > >> But it is not enough, and it never will be. > > Yes. And no-where did I (intent to) say otherwise. > > In case you missed my point, allow me to repeat it: > asking others to move first, while not moving oneself is not a convincing > argument. To be a serious proposer for a goal, one should show that one > strives to the goal already.
We are encouraging people to join the Global Climate strike, yes. But who says we're not doing the same? I, for one, am not only participating in the strike, I'm helping as a steward ("Ordner" in German). And talking to some people in KDE, I've realized that many of them weren't even aware of the strike, but when they learned about it, they thought it was a good thing. So by informing people about the strike, we can maybe help make it grow larger. That is a good thing. > KDE as organization so far has not. And thus so far is not a convincing > supporter of the goal. Like a car company which does blabla about how small > EVs should be used by people rather and how they might build some in the > future, but currently selling big SUVs and wasting lots of resources (and it > does not matter what worker privately do, when it comes to company business). > Having lip-only supporters as allies is not helping, it's hard to trust them. > And actually it harms an organisation as well if it shouts "save the world!" > but has not shown own efforts. Like someone eating meat and mumbling "people > should eat vegetarian". Who should feel motivated to change things for you, > who takes you serious? It is true that environmental protection has not been high on our agenda in the past, but the board has started looking into the topic late last year, and in July the membership of KDE e.V. has started drafting an environmental responsibility policy. It will still take a while to finish because while there is broad consensus that it's a good idea, there is a wide range of opinions about the details. I don't think anybody believes we should stop at that, though. There are already more ideas, such as focusing our software on energy-saving or supporting older hardware, cooperating with eco-friendly hardware manufacturers or encouraging our current hardware partners to make more sustainable hardware. > If you look at history, politicians will also not be really impressed by > peaceful strikes, other than looking where they need to adapt their image. > The > numbers they look at are poll results Yes, and poll results are affected by voters' opinion being influenced by images of protests. Before Fridays for Future started, climate change was ranking pretty low in people's priorities. Now, for example, 63% of Germans believe that climate protection should take precedence over economic growth . When even Germans think that, that says a lot. Of course FFF wasn't the only thing that happened between then and now, we've also had several temperature records, news of melting ice caps and burning forests so there is no clear causal link, but I still believe that when people see so many young people out on the streets every week, it does affect them. > And the numbers business looks at are sales results. If you want to change > things with them, use those numbers. Or become politician or business and try > to do the right thing. > And that's also how real strikes work; business not being able to make > business, to pressure business leaders' mind to change. School kids not going to school does bother people, as evidenced by lots of people having a strong opinion about it, one way or another. Why is it not a "real strike" just because those striking are still in school? > I would like to see KDE here being long-term serious, and not just doing an > ad-hoc "yes, evilevil, we agree, protest against it, people, are we not also > good (and back to current harmful business)", without existing track. I want KDE to do both! I want us to use our reach to inform people about climate action, and of course I also want us to do our part to save our planet! But who says we can't do both? Cheers, Thomas  https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/deutschlandtrend-1807.html