< This is when beta brain waves start.> But a heart beats. If a heart beats, a person is alive. Besides, you are accepting an assumption as fact that a brain requires beta waves to be conscious.Are your familiar with NDE? The people who experience Near Death, To be pronounced dead the ECG and EEG must be flat. No heart beat, no brain wave. Yet, at the same time while they are so *dead*, they have experience vision of beind dead and now on the otherside. Regardless how true is their vision of the Afterlife [ many elements always the same, what shows some kind of a sharable reality ], a puzzling fact remains, that according to our standards of death or life, these people were supposed to be unconscious and dead. So, how could they dream or have any visions? You use false logic to prove your point. An assumption is not a fact and we should be concerned mainly with the empirical evidence or experience. Anna
----- Original Message ----- From: Paul To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 7:53 AM Subject: objective vs subjective Re: [Libertarian] Re: Socialism/Capitalism of the A You're wrong about when a fetus has the capacity to think, not that it matters. Sentience (awareness) starts at about 7 months. This is when beta brain waves start. But even this doesn't matter. It's still not a human being. It's still a biological parasite until the moment it leaves the host body and not a second before. That is when the parasite becomes a human being and is entitled to rights. It wouldn't matter if a fetus could think, speak, and write notes begging not to die. As long as it's within the body of another person it has absolutely no rights at all. Not even the right to life. Aborting such a fetus IS NO HARM to another person. --- In [email protected], "Anna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It has a mind of its own and a brain that thinks by the 4.5 month of gestation and also has a body that can feel pain. > I was under the impression that the motto of libertarians is NO HARM. > Anna > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 9:27 PM > Subject: objective vs subjective Re: [Libertarian] Re: Socialism/Capitalism of the A > > > Actually a fetus is sort of like a cross between a tapeworm and a > tumor. It has no more rights than your liver does. If you want to > remove your liver, nobody has any legitimate right to tell you you > can't, especially your liver. > > > > --- In [email protected], "mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Does a tumor have rights equal to its host? No. Not that it's > > perfectly analogous to a human fetus. Logically, a fetus would > > have more rights than a tumor. It's not that a fetus does not > > have rights; it just does not have as much as the mother. > > Everything is relative in this regard. Don't think "yes"/"no", > > "all"/"none", etc - think "more"/"less". The issue is tough, > > unique, marginal, and endlessly contentious - but that is > > precisely why to leave legislation and enforcement out of it and > > leave the burden on the shoulders of the mother. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > As the Dude on the Deuce postulated in 1776, all Men are created > > equal and > > are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights. > > > > Not "born" equal. Created equal. The baby has a human mother and > > a human > > father and therefore is not likely a giraffe. The baby could die > > in the > > womb and therefore is alive, because one of the prerequisites for > > dying is > > that you must be alive to do it. The baby is a living human > > being. The > > mother's Creator-given right to sole control of her body has been > > pre-empted by her Creator for the time being by endowing the baby > > with the > > right of parasitic feeding, just as the kid's Creator-given right > > to > > liberty is later restricted by the mother's Creator-given right > > to > > restrain the kid in a stroller at the mall. > > > > Tell your kindergarten kid to invite a classmate to live with > > you, and the > > classmate accepts, and see how long it is before the government > > dispatches > > gun-toting goons in bulletproof vests to enforce the parents' > > right to > > raise their kid. ("That to secure these Rights, Governments are > > instituted > > among Men...") You were violating the parents' Creator-given > > right to > > raise their child. Likewise, the Creator-given right of the baby > > to life > > can be enforced by the State. > > > > Tom Alciere > > smart person with correct opinions > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > SPONSORED LINKS E government Libertarian E government strategy > Libertarian party E government procurement > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "Libertarian" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! 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