Linux-Misc Digest #382, Volume #18 Mon, 28 Dec 98 12:13:08 EST
Contents:
Re: Am I stupid or am I stupid. PPP. ALMOST!!! (James Carlson)
Re: RedHat-5.2 kernel and serial ports.. (Daniel Goh)
Re: Am I stupid or am I stupid. PPP. ALMOST!!! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: grepping for pids
Re: A crazy idea (FTP install via null modem?) ("Marius Gedminas")
Re: The goal of Open Source (Victor Danilchenko)
Re: SparcLinux (Frank Hahn)
Re: The goal of Open Source (Victor Danilchenko)
- - Lolita.html (Lola)
Re: Am I stupid or am I stupid. PPP. ALMOST!!! (Connie Neal)
Re: SuSE or RedHat ? (Victor Danilchenko)
ATAPI Tape (Sony SuperStation) problem. (Ken C. Moellman Jr.)
Sound and DOSEMU ("Marius Gedminas")
Re: execute a script copied from dos filesystem? ("Marius Gedminas")
Re: Is Microsoft a nasty company ? I'm asking you this question.
(joseph_a_philbrook__iii)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: James Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.protocols.ppp
Subject: Re: Am I stupid or am I stupid. PPP. ALMOST!!!
Date: 28 Dec 1998 07:43:20 -0500
Michael Fross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I am having the exact same problem. It is not an authentication issue,
> however because I do authenticate. It seems there are a lot of people
> with this problem. Has Redhat acknowledged it as a bug?
I'm afraid that from the traces you've posted, what you have is
absolutely certain to be an authentication problem.
Before shouting "bug," you do need to make sure you're configuring it
right.
--
James Carlson, Consulting S/W Engineer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
IronBridge Networks / 55 Hayden Avenue 71.246W Vox: +1 781 372 8132
Lexington MA 02421-7996 / USA 42.423N Fax: +1 781 372 8090
"PPP Design and Debugging" --- http://people.ne.mediaone.net/carlson/ppp
------------------------------
From: Daniel Goh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RedHat-5.2 kernel and serial ports..
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:58:57 +0800
ishwar rattan wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Just installed RedHat-5.2 and recompiled the kernel for SMP. The
> serial port (COM1) does not work. The message in dmesg is --
>
> ..
> Serial divers version 4.13 with no serial options enabled
> ..
>
> In /usr/src/linux/.config the line reads
> ..
> CONFIG_SERIAL=y
> ..
>
> What else is to be enabled for standard serial ports? Please
> help.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> - ishwar rattan
Check your BIOS, turn PNP off, and enable the port under the normal
setting. That was my problem. I have it fixed now. You should see the
following in dmesg if it's ok:
Serial divers version 4.13 with no serial options enabled
tty00 at 0x03f8 (irq =4) is a 16550A
Hope it works.
Mail me if you need more help.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.protocols.ppp
Subject: Re: Am I stupid or am I stupid. PPP. ALMOST!!!
Date: 28 Dec 1998 05:03:51 -0800
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Michael says...
>
>I am having the exact same problem. It is not an authentication issue,
>however because I do authenticate. It seems there are a lot of people
>with this problem. Has Redhat acknowledged it as a bug?
>
I have also similar problem with red hat 5.2.
When I login as non root, ie. some user, and dialout, the connection
failes with some PAM error (authentican failed?). but when I login as
root, and dial out (everything else the same), the connection stays up.
I guess I need to figure how to add this PAM thing. I am sure I'll get this
to work sometime this week :)
sean.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: grepping for pids
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:40:19 GMT
In article <76813k$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, you could pipe the results to awk. For instance, the command
ps <options> | grep <string> | awk '{print $1}'
will return a list of matching pid's. But, have you looked at
the "killall" command? It might solve your problem more
directly.
Jim
>I'm trying to write a little bash script that kills a process but
>am having trouble figuring out how to feed the PID that grep returns
>to the kill command. Any help appreciated.
>
>--
>Ian Neath, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Marius Gedminas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: A crazy idea (FTP install via null modem?)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:40:11 +0100
Wildman, the Cuberstalker wrote in message ...
>Well, a null-modem connection is as fast as the machines involved can
>handle, so it isn't speed that would be an issue. The lack of TCP/IP on
>which to run the FTP would be the problem.
It's simple: run pppd on it. A friend of mine had successfully done this,
although the speed was not very good (5-10 Kb per second, well, that's
much better than my Internet connection ;)
--
Marius Gedminas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:03:11 -0500
From: Victor Danilchenko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The goal of Open Source
Robert Kiesling wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Victor Danilchenko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >steve mcadams wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sun, 27 Dec 1998 17:18:48 -0500, Victor Danilchenko
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Now step back and think about the situation in this light. You are
> >> >demanding a right to forbid people to do stuff. You don't actually OWN
> >> >anything (there is noTHING to own here) -- rather, you have been granted
> >> >a right, a right to prevent people from doing certain things.
> >> > Do you feel any different now?..
> >>
> >> If I spend a lot of time and effort determining the order the bits
> >> need to be in to cause a certain function to happen, don't I have a
> >> right to expect recompense for my efforts? Have I not created
> >> something that is useful? -steve
> >
> > Yes, you most certainly have created something that is useful -- the
> >point of distinction here is that, once you created it, it costs nothing
> >to create other copies of it. Yes, you should be compensated for writing
> >it -- however, once it is written, insisting upon charging money for
> >something that costs nothing to you (costs nothing now, that you have
> >written it) is not nice either. Remember, what you have created is an
> >IDEA, not a thing -- an idea that the entire society can benefit from.
> >FSF, in this respect, proposes a very utilitarian thing -- the greatest
> >good for the greatest number, maximisation of overall utility.
>
> No, I have not created an idea, I have created a specific
> implementation of an idea.
Technically, yes -- but that does not change the essence of the
argument, that the "product" you create is information which, due to its
nature, can be further replicated without any cost to you.
> Ideas cannot be copyrighted or patented.
> And that's not the end of it. The GPL also mentions that derivatives
> should be in the spirit of the original work.
No, it merely mentions that derivatives also must be copylefted.
> I do not want to be
> held responsible for something I never created nor would have created.
> Certainly protecting myself against that, through licensing or
> whatever, takes time, and should be compensated for.
Huh? You lost me there.
--
| Victor A. Danilchenko CSCF support |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] A313, 5-4231 |
+--------------------------------------------+
| Quando omni flunkus, moritati. |
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Frank Hahn)
Subject: Re: SparcLinux
Date: 28 Dec 1998 15:01:31 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 28 Dec 1998 10:25:38 GMT, Levin Jungermann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>I would like to, if somebody knows how to fix this:
>I am running a SparcIPC (Sun4C) with RedHat 5.1, and if the system is
>running for more than a few days it almost comes to stand. The problem seems
>to be 'find', because it occupies about 60% of CPU time.
>
I can't answer your question specifically, but did you look at the
cron files to see if something from there may be running?
--
Frank Hahn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:00:09 -0500
From: Victor Danilchenko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The goal of Open Source
Jerry Lynn Kreps wrote:
>
> Victor Danilchenko wrote:
> <snip>
> > P.S. I have just finished reading Dawkins's "The Selfish Gene". He has a
> > very interesting example there -- how a society of "hawks" (aggressors)
> > and "doves" (passives) balances out. Turns out that the the state to
> > which such a society will naturally lean, is a not very good one. A much
> > better overall benefit might be arrived at by implementing artificial
> > conventions. FSF is proposing such a convention, which will lead to a
> > greater overall society good than the current model.
>
> So, is Dawkin's proposing that a command-and-control structure imposed
> upon a society is better for that society than the freedom and liberty
> of it individuals to make their own choices?
No, he is proposing nothing of the sort. His statement is a
game-theoretic analysis of evolutionary strategies; I have merely cited
it as an example that a state at which universal individualism and
selfishness leave you, is not necessarily the most beneficial state for
all. let me restate in greater detail Dawkins's example.
> If that is the essence of
> his proposal then that philosophy has already been tried and proven to
> be a colossal failure after a 70 year experiment that costs the lives of
> over 100 million people. Doesn't sound like a "better overall benefit"
> to me.
> That experiment proved that in the long run elitist only end up making
> things better for themselves and their allies, and worse for the masses
> they claim to have such a concern for.
OK, here goes.
Suppose you have a society consisting of two groups of individuals:
"doves" and "hawks". Hawks, when encountering another individual, always
attack; doves, when attacked, always retreat. When a dove encounters
another dove, they posture until one of them gets bored or decides it is
no longer worth his time; the dove who persevered is considered a
winner.
Now let us assign values to different outcomes.
Winning an encounter is worth +50 points.
Losing an encounter is worth zero points.
Getting hurt (i.e. losing an encounter between two hawks) is worth -100
points.
Wasting time (as in encounter between two doves) is worth -100 points.
Now, in society of all doves, the average eoutcome per encounter is +15
(mean ot +50 for winning and 0 for losing, -10 for wasting time for each
participant).
In society of all hawks, the average outcome is worth -25 (mwean of +50
for winning and -100 for losing painfully).
However, in a society of all doves, a hawk can get a mean benefit of
+50 (it will always win, since doves always retreat when attacked).
Similarly, in a society of all hawks, doves will prosper, since their
mean outcome is 0 (they never win, but theyt also never get hurt).
This seems like it would lead to an oscillation -- however, if you do
the math, you will realize that in a society where 5/12 of the
population are doves and 7/12 are hawks, the mean payoff for everyone is
the same -- 6.25. This is a state towards which the population will
naturally gravitate, because under any other ratio, either hawks or
doves will be able to prosper more than the other. This is what Dawking
calls "Evolutionary Stable Strategy" -- one that is not necessarily
best, but which is not open to abuses by its members.
Now compare this NATURAL mean utility (6.25) with one a society of all
doves can achieve (15). The latter is obviously much more beneficial to
all, but has to be enforced somehow.
So, please drop your passionate anti-communist rhetorics, and simply
think about what I am trying to say -- that what FSF proposes is
something that would increase the society's overall utility (they are
essentially proposing a way to artificially decrease the # of "hawks" --
artificially, because any such altruistic decision is against our
genetic programming)
--
| Victor A. Danilchenko CSCF support |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] A313, 5-4231 |
+--------------------------------------------+
| Quando omni flunkus, moritati. |
------------------------------
From: Lola <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.m68k,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.powerpc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: - - Lolita.html
Date: 28 Dec 98 20:37:37 +-0600
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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------------------------------
From: Connie Neal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.protocols.ppp
Subject: Re: Am I stupid or am I stupid. PPP. ALMOST!!!
Date: 28 Dec 1998 08:25:17 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Michael says...
>
> >
> >I am having the exact same problem. It is not an authentication issue,
> >however because I do authenticate. It seems there are a lot of people
> >with this problem. Has Redhat acknowledged it as a bug?
> >
>
> I have also similar problem with red hat 5.2.
> When I login as non root, ie. some user, and dialout, the connection
> failes with some PAM error (authentican failed?). but when I login as
> root, and dial out (everything else the same), the connection stays up.
>
> I guess I need to figure how to add this PAM thing. I am sure I'll get this
> to work sometime this week :)
>
> sean.
Have you added the user to the dialout group?
Connie
---
Connie Neal Austin Linux Group
Austin, Texas http://members.aol.com/U4icRecall/alg.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:40:33 -0500
From: Victor Danilchenko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: SuSE or RedHat ?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Victor Danilchenko writes:
> > Ummm... Any GNU/Linux is "free", since it is distributed under GPL.
>
> All Debian packages are free in that they all comply with the Debian Free
> Software Guidelines (the basis of the Open Source Definition). The GPL is
> only one of many DFSG compliant licenses.
To the best of my knowledge, this is also the case with RedHat
distribution -- the entire thing is copylefted.
> > What do you mean by Debian being GNU --
>
> We mean the GNU tools and utilities are a very important part of the
> distribution.
Ditto RedHat -- and, AFAIK, ditto Slackware and SuSe and Caldera
(although Caldera, I understand, does package some non-free software
with their Linux distribution). That's why it is called "GNU/Linux"...
> > ...does FSF endorse Debian as "official" GNU/Linux incarnation?
>
> No.
That's nice to know.
I am not trying to start a flamewar -- I was just surprised by Destrius
stressing the "freeness" of Debian as a reason to chose that particular
distribution.
--
| Victor A. Danilchenko CSCF support |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] A313, 5-4231 |
+--------------------------------------------+
| Quando omni flunkus, moritati. |
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ken C. Moellman Jr.)
Subject: ATAPI Tape (Sony SuperStation) problem.
Date: 28 Dec 1998 10:34:50 -0500
--
Help! I have a Sony SuperStore Internal IDE tape drive. It accepts 6.6
and 10GB (3.3 and 5.0 uncompressed) tapes. I cannot get linux to write or
read to the device correctly. I get lots of nasty errors while booting:
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: ide-tape: I/O error in request sense command
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: hdc: ATAPI reset complete
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: ide-tape: I/O error in request sense command
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: hdc: ATAPI reset complete
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: ide-tape: I/O error in request sense command
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: hdc: ATAPI reset complete
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: ide-tape: I/O error in request sense command
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: hdc: ATAPI reset complete
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: ide-tape: hdc: I/O error, pc = 1a, key = 0, asc = 0,
ascq = 0
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: ide-tape: I/O error in request sense command
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: hdc: ATAPI reset complete
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: ide-tape: possible ide-tape.c bug - Two request sense
in serial were issued
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: ide-tape: I/O error in request sense command
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: hdc: ATAPI reset complete
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: ide-tape: possible ide-tape.c bug - Two request sense
in serial were issued
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: ide-tape: I/O error in request sense command
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: hdc: ATAPI reset complete
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: ide-tape: possible ide-tape.c bug - Two request sense
in serial were issued
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: ide-tape: hdc: I/O error, pc = 3, key = 0, asc = 0,
ascq = 0
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: Error in REQUEST SENSE itself - Aborting request!
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: ide-tape: ide-tape.c bug - Two DSC requests were queued
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: ide-tape: ide-tape.c bug - Two DSC requests were queued
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: ide-tape: hdc: overriding capabilities->speed (assuming
650KB/sec)
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: ide-tape: Can't get tape parameters
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: ide-tape: Assuming some default parameters
Dec 27 02:05:20 master kernel: ide-tape: hdc <-> ht0, 450KBps, 6*26kB buffer, 2600kB
pipeline, 140ms tDSC
I get similar messages when I attempt to access the drive after the system
is up and running.
Any assistance is greatly appreciated.
Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
Administrator, MU*Net Networking.
http://www.mu-net.org/
------------------------------
From: "Marius Gedminas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Sound and DOSEMU
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:54:41 +0100
I'm not sure what is the appropriate group for questions about DOSEMU
(there is no comp.os.emulators.dos on my news server), however I'll try
asking here: which version of DOSEMU really supports sound emulation?
I've tried 0.98.3 as the announcement contained something about sound
support (even with DMA), but it does not seem to work. I've read the
documentation a little and noticed that `old' sound code (the one in 0.66?)
also supported sound with DMA. However I couldn't make that version to
work either.
Cc: by mail would be greatly appreciated.
--
Marius Gedminas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Marius Gedminas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: execute a script copied from dos filesystem?
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:33:02 +0100
Paul Lew wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>I had copied a linux script into a dos partition for a cdrom when
>in winnt; then I copied the script fo linux when in linux mode. The
>problem is when I tried to execute the script I get a "no such file
>or directory found". The "attributes" of the file was set to be
>executable by all and updated only by the user (root).
Maybe the shell is confused by DOS-style newlines (\r\n instead of just \n).
There are a couple of programs for this purpose: fromdos and dtou that
convert DOS-style newlines to Unix-style ones.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (joseph_a_philbrook__iii)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.linux.x,gnu.misc.discuss,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Is Microsoft a nasty company ? I'm asking you this question.
Date: 28 Dec 1998 17:00:57 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:34:20 GMT, Peter Seebach wrote these thought
>provoking words :
and in this reply both were liberaly snipped...
>>: Hmm. I would argue that there's really such a thing as "ease of use"
>>: even between otherwise equivalent tools which one has mastered. I'm not
>>: sure how to distinguish it from efficiency, because "obviously" ease of
>>: use will lead to efficiency. But I think they are different; it's possible
>>: to have a tool which is very efficient at performing its task, but hard
>>: to use.
>
>Yes, I think that they are different. That's what I have been trying
>to say all along.:-)
OK I'll agree that ease of *"_USE_"* will lead to efficiancy... but not that
easy to learn always leads to either ease of use or efficiancy. AND
following this debate I notice that very little is said about the fact that
the little extras that make a tool easy to learn for one individual may not
do so for another. And in fact may even make it more difficult to learn if
they are based on incorrect assumptions about what skills are easy to use for
that particular individual. In my case referencing choices with pictures
rather than words makes it about as easy as using words in someone elses
language. And requireing that I use hand eye coordination to line up the
mouse pointer on the choice I want in order to click on it makes is about as
easy to learn as a gymnist act would be for my 40yr+ 300lb+ body... while
offering the same information in text form <in MY OWN language of course>
and alowing my to make selections via the keyboard is easier than walking
or driving a car...
>>: But *once you have that skill*, is driving easier? I'd say it's still
>>: not *easier*. But it may be safer and nicer in a lot of other ways.
>Driving is not *easier*. It is, however, far less tedious and faster
>(hence more efficient) to drive 10 miles than to run ten miles.
>
I'd say that depends on your definition of easier... they are different
skills with simular uses and they share some of the same problems of needing
to pay attention to where you are going and avoid running into obsticals
<some of which may be moving> and of course both the driver AND the walker
want to avoid being hit by the crosstown bus...
BUT I would say that I find driving just as easy as walking <presumbing the
same trafic conditions (ie walking in my livingroom would be easier than
driving on a city street...)> And usualy driving is less work for me. BUT I
can't agree that it's more eficiant as it requires that the car spend the
energy to drag it's mass around my route as well as my own. <granted it
would become {relitivily} more efficiant if I needed to drag 500lbs of
freight across town :) >
>>: But let's say I'm feeling a bit sick, and maybe I'm on medication.
If I'm too sick to drive my car, then I'm to sick to do muck walking in city
trafic too...
>Oh definitely but this is what leads to a misuse of terminology and
>loss of priorities in software development as well. The developer, in
>trying to make their app easy to learn loses sight of the fact that
>this may be affecting efficiency. Perhaps he may even be thinking that
>ease of learning equals efficiency of use.....quite a preposterous
>assumption.
I'll agree with that. Though there shouldn't be anything inherently hard to
learn about efficiant software... It could be wrapped with an easy tutorial
wizard that could then be trimmed off later when the user reaches a level of
prficiancy that causes the tutorial to be counter productive...
IMHO this would be easier than trying to build efficiancy into the
supposadly easy to learn gui only application...
>Windows is towards one extreme, Linux is towards the other extreme and
>making it's way quite quickly to an optimum balance between the two
>and OS/2 is pretty much, right at the balance already.....how
>unfortunate it is that such a good OS is doing so badly.<sigh>
I can't speak for OS/2 having that ballance you speak of, but I'm afraid
that the prevelance og x only software is draging linux down the path
toward the extream you attribute to winblows...
UNLESS something like incorperating the information on how to use more
efficiant cli interface commands to accomplish the gui selected task
is built in to the gui (such as in the ok boxes as I described earlier
in this thread) is done I'm afraid that linux won't ever achive that
ballance. And that will sadden me :(
All I know for sure about easy to learn gui stuff is that if they ever
make it easy for blind users I'll be jealous of their interface...
only rather than hearing a "spoken" text I'd want a text display so that I
could see the context.. (it would be easier for me than trying to interpet
the current idea of easy gui displays)
But if they would build both cli AND gui into ALL new stuff, while using
well placed and well worded instructions in BOTH interfaces on how to use
BOTH intertfaces we would have easy to learn software that stayed easy to
use with expert experiance levals AND would provide easy to relearn seldom
used tasks for those of us who sometimes forget a detail or two...
~^~ ~^~
(*) (*) Joe (theWordy) Philbrook
^
\___/ < [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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