Linux-Misc Digest #797, Volume #21 Mon, 13 Sep 99 20:13:11 EDT
Contents:
Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie ("Paul 'Z' Ewande�")
initiating Win98 in Linux ("James Meng")
Re: Any advice on alternate character set over telnet? (Cameron L. Spitzer)
New Linux Bulletin Board (LINUX BULLETIN BOARD)
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From: "Paul 'Z' Ewande�" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:44:48 +0200
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a �crit dans le message :
7rjom8$8gl$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tom Dominico, Jr.) wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in <7rc0nk$2n8$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > >That is my complaint -- the idiotic notion that, in order to install
> > >something as complex as Office 97, all you need to know is how to
> > >mindlessly click through the wizard. No. I maintain that
> > >understanding computers in a general sense, and specifically
> > >understanding what is going where, and why, should be a requirement.
> > >Knowing how to do a custom install, and knowing why/when you would
> > >need to do so, should also be expected. Otherwise, the bozo in
> > >question should defer to someone who *is* qualified.
> >
> > You know, as I have been reading your various posts, I am taken aback
> > by the sheer arrogance and rudeness displayed. Why would an issue
> > like this make you so angry?
>
> Advocating ignorance always makes me angry. Saying that people should
> remain ignorant "because Microsoft knows what's best for them" makes me
I don't think it's advocating ignorance because Microsoft knows what's best
for them. It's advocating the "computers are complex machine which can be
made to be used by minimal effort [which implies of course great effort on
the part of the programmer], so that many people can use it, so it becomes a
commodity, drop of prices...
Some people don't want to learn, they just want to use the thing, computers
can allow that, what's wrong ? Those same persons can even use their
computers to further their interests in other fields. People only dig in the
fields that interest them. I'm not sure that you are as skilled in *all* the
other human endeavor as you are in one. People do make choices, and
computers are one choice among many.
> angry. People who mistake my desire for people to be a bit more
> enlightened as "arrogance" makes me wonder if anyone on this planet
Some people don't care to be enlightened in computers, they just want to use
it.
> really understands the English language.
>
> Yeah, I've got an attitute. So do you. So do all of the contemptible
> trolls and other MS-Defenders who post here, saying that people
> shouldn't hafta know nuthin' at all about 'puters but should still be
> able to modify them, change them, with impunity, by being able to
as long as they don't have to fiddle with it, yes, I think the more people
use computers without to much hassles, I can get to use a better computer
for a lower price, and so do you.
> install 100+ megabytes of data and code without knowing anything about
> the processes involved.
>
> > Sadly, I have noted many others who share your elitist attitude that
> > only computer "experts" like yourself should be able to own/operate
> > one.
>
> This has nothing to do with "only computer 'experts' . . . should be
> able to own/operate" a computer. It has to do with having an inkling of
> intelligence. Computers are sophisticated. Complex. Unrivalled as
How do you define that intelligence ? Many bright people don't have a clue
about computer because they just don't care, but culd give you a good run
for your money in many subjects. I may be wrong, but i doubt it. And no, I
don't make any assumptions about your intelligence, be them good or bad.
> compared to other consumer devices. A computer can be a phone, FAX,
> Television, CD player and Word Processor all at the same time, while
> still having the capacity to do other functions as well. Yet people
> like you insist that nobody should need any skill when working with one.
Absolutely. they can be many, many things, including easy to use for the
unsavvy user.
> Yet we need to pass a written test before we are allowed to drive cars,
> to prove that we have an inkling of awareness with regard to the rules
> of the road, and how to operate the vehicle.
Because, you are more likely kill someone with a car or a motorcycle than
with using a computer
> > Anyone who does not meet your criteria for being considered a
> > competent user is immediately classified a "bozo". What an arrogant,
> > ignorant statement.
>
> No. Frustrated. Not arrogant. It's the MS-Contingent with their "We Won
> The OS War And Everyone Else Is A Luzer" who are arrogant. Their smug
> "Our Way Is The Only Proper Way To Do Anything" mindset is arrogant.
Hmmm. I've read that Windows user don't really like their computers. So they
should logically care less, and they generally do. I think that generally,
the minorities are more likely to feel an identity crispation. I amy of
course be dead wrong. :)
> > While I am good with computers, I know virtually nothing about car
> > repair. Yet, I am able to drive a car.
>
> If you have really read any of my other posts, then you would know that
> I have no problem with computer-ignorant people ***USING*** computers.
> You simply misunderstand what I say, perhaps deliberately, in order to
> justify your petty tirade against me.
>
> > If something goes wrong, I take it to the shop.
>
> Precisely.
>
> > I wonder if the repair guys consider me to be a bozo because I do not
> > know how to make simple repairs?
>
> If you tried to make the simple repair in question, and munged it up,
> making more work for them to clean up the mess, then yes, they probably
> think you're a bozo. You see, that's my issue, the idea that
Heh heh. :) I know the feeling, I work in tech support, however someone
tries an fails a simple repair, I'll give him kudos for at least trying, and
in the prtocess learn something. I'm much more pissed off when they fiddle
with working things that should have better remained untouched. YMMV.
> computer-ignorant people should be able to ***ADMINISTER*** a computer,
> which is ********NOT******** the same thing as *******USING******* a
> computer.
>
> But idiots insist on equating Administration (i.e., installing software,
> configuring the system) with Use (i.e., data entry, word processing,
> drafting). Computer-ignorant people can and should *****USE*****
> computers. If they want to *****ADMINISTER***** a computer, they should
The MacOS from what I heard, pretty much allows that. And no, i'm no Mac
advocate, far from it.
> learn about it first. To me, it's only common sense. To you, it's
> arrogance.
>
> Go figure.
Maybe it's the way you express yourself, or people perceive your expression,
I don't know.
> > On the contrary, I'm sure they appreciate the revenue I bring them.
> > In the same vein, we as computer "experts" can capitalize on our
> > knowledge, and use it to help out people who are unskilled. Ever hear
> > of "Technical Support?" They exist to help out end users.
>
> You mean those guys who immediately suggest rebooting the computer,
> regardless of the problem? I have had such bozos tell me to reboot
> because I got locked out of a mainframe session on an MVS system! Rather
> than go into MVS and reset my password, they tell me to reboot!
>
> That is just plain stupid. Stupid beyond belief, yet we pay these
> people!
>
> -- snip --
>
> > Elitists like you want to keep "the common folk" in the dark ages
> > because they are not willing to study the intricacies of computer
> > systems.
>
> This is unadulterated bullshit. It's MS who want to keep people in the
> Dark Ages. "Don't worry about learning anything! Let us take care of
That's the way of the world. Things are expected to be more user friendly.
Be it cars or computers...
> everything! We know what's best for you! Pay no attention to the man
> behind the curtain . . . Don't Worry! Be Happy!"
Don't forget Apple. But you apparently fail to understand that people want
computers to be such. They want computers to get out of their way. They just
want to be able to do stuff.
My cousin, when I had a DOS machine, wouldn't touch my box. When I installed
Win9x, the box was friendly enough that she began to sue it all by herself,
and even got enough interest to ask me a few questions beyond simple usage.
> No. What I advocate is a little bit of enlightenment, so that the Great
> Unwashed can become a little less unwashed. And a bit less brainwashed
> by MS.
I dion't think that MS brainwashed anyone. They try,as do Apple, to deliver
what the masses want. When the masses have acces to computers, prices fall,
and we all benefit.
<SNIP> Some stuff </SNIP>
BTW, some people may like a product while not giving a damn about the
company which makes it.
Paul 'Z' Ewande who felt a bit long
------------------------------
From: "James Meng" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: initiating Win98 in Linux
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:00:36 -0700
I have 2 hard drives installed in my system. hda contains RH 6.0 and hdb
contains Win98. I can boot either with lilo, and I can mount and read the
files on hdb. My question is how can I run windows from within linux? I've
seen screenshots of other people that have done it. Anyway help would be
greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Cameron L. Spitzer)
Subject: Re: Any advice on alternate character set over telnet?
Date: 13 Sep 1999 23:06:33 GMT
In article <7rj3ht$njd$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Andrey Zmievski wrote:
>My workstation is Linux running RedHat 6.0. To read my mail I telnet to
>a Solaris workstation where I run Zmail which uses alternate character
>set to draw the dialog boxes and such. When I was sitting directly on
>Solaris box, it worked fine. However, over telnet alternate character
>set doesn't work and all I see are 'p' and 's' letters. After I telnet
>in TERM is set to 'xterm'.
>
>Now, I know this is all related to TERM env variable and
>termcap/terminfo database. But, which machine should be adjusted,
>Solaris one or my Linux workstation? And also, how should I go about
>figuring out how to fix this alternate character set problem?
This will work if you have a fast link between the two machines.
1. Get a shell on the RedHat 6.0 box and type "xhost +"
2. Type "ifconfig" and get the IP number of the interface that
the Solaris box can see. Let's say it's 12.34.56.78
3. Get a shell on the Solaris box and export a display value
into the shell environment.
C shell: setenv DISPLAY 12.34.56.78:0.0
sh, bash,,,: DISPLAY=12.34.56.78:0.0 ; export DISPLAY
4. Invoke an xterm or shelltool or cmdtool in that shell.
A new window should pop up on your Linux XFree86 display.
5. Verify that the DISPLAY value is still good in the shell
in that window.
6. Invoke your mailer in that shell. Solaris will draw on your
XFree86 surface. You may still have font problems, but they'll
be different font problems.
Curses and termcap/terminfo are a damn mess. Avoid them if you can.
Cameron
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From: LINUX BULLETIN BOARD <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: New Linux Bulletin Board
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:15:38 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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