Linux-Misc Digest #8, Volume #24 Fri, 31 Mar 00 12:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: lilo default=dos (Patricia)
Re: networking question DHCP + local? (MrJack of LuLuland)
Re: RedHat 6.1 and 3Com HomeConnect PC Digital Camera (USB), anyone? (Leonard Evens)
Recommended backup routines (Kerry Cox)
Re: Partition disappeared? (Leonard Evens)
Duplex printing (James Hammerton)
Re: Large File Support (bill davidsen)
Re: Weak sound with VIA Apollo Pro (Rod Smith)
Effect of changing group ID? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Successful Multiboot setup when NT Loader owns the Master Boot Record (Rollin Weeks)
Re: Help please, boot broblem (Robert Heininger)
Re: Help LILO 10101... Problem!!! (Neil Koozer)
(OT) Duplex printing (Harold Stevens ** PLEASE SEE SIG **)
Re: Duplex printing (Bill Delphenich)
Re: Lilo question:How to move Linux Drive to secondary IDE port. (Neil Koozer)
Re: delete user account ("Jeff Susanj")
Re: Partition disappeared? ("Jeff Susanj")
Re: RedHat gets "echo" wrong ("Jeff Susanj")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Patricia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: lilo default=dos
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:09:55 +0200
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, dudu wrote:
>How a can get this.
>thanks.....
log in as root or su
edit /etc/lilo.conf
boot=
map=
install=
prompt
timeout=
other=/dev/hda1
label=dos
table=/dev/hda
image=
label=
root=
read-only
Bewaar het bestand.
type /sbin/lilo -v
--
HTH :)
Patricia
http://www.crosswinds.net/~beginnerslinux
Red Hat Linux release 6.0 (Hedwig)
Kernel 2.2.5-15
5:10pm up 10:52, 2 users, load average: 0.02, 0.12, 0.16
Fri Mar 31 17:10:09 CEST 2000
------------------------------
From: MrJack of LuLuland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: networking question DHCP + local?
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:27:11 GMT
In article <Io1F4.2404$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
> You need to find-out what IP address been assigned using command
> 'ifconfig' then use it to telnet or ftp. You might prefer to edit
> '/etc/hosts' file and create a URL or host name for the other PC, but each
> time you reboot your PC's a new IP address might be allocated then you've
> got to edit '/etc/hosts' file again to update.
Thanks very much, Enlight!
I thought, since the hub can go between the two local machines as well as
the Internet, I could have a separate "network-thing" outside of the DHCP
stuff?
To be sure it's clear, What I have is:
Machine A
\ dhcp client
\
hub- - - Roadrunner,
/ which has separate IP numbers for A and B
/ dhcp client
Machine B
Can't I, so to speak, draw a little line between A and B via the hub,
without having to go thru the Inet?
Thanx whatever!
james
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Leonard Evens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: RedHat 6.1 and 3Com HomeConnect PC Digital Camera (USB), anyone?
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:03:35 -0600
Ronald Cole wrote:
>
> Ok, on an impulse I bought the 3Com USB PC camera. I've looked for
> documentation and/or HOWTOs for connecting it to my pc running RH6.1,
> but have been unsuccessful.
>
> About the only thing I've been able to figure out is that RH6.1
> doesn't appear to support USB "out of the box".
>
> I refuse to believe that I'm going to have to wait until RedHat
> releases a linux-2.4 distribution (RH7.x?), or that I'm going to have
> to resort to Win98 and Netmeeting to get some use out of it.
>
> Can anyone who's connected a USB camera to their PC and gotten it
> working with RH6.1 offer me some pointers? Thanks!
>
> --
> Forte International, P.O. Box 1412, Ridgecrest, CA 93556-1412
> Ronald Cole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Phone: (760) 499-9142
> President, CEO Fax: (760) 499-9152
> My GPG fingerprint: C3AF 4BE9 BEA6 F1C2 B084 4A88 8851 E6C8 69E3 B00B
The current stable Linux kernels (2.2.X) don't support USB devices.
The latest development kernels do and the next stable kernels
(2.4.X)---which will probably be out later this year---will.
At that point the software, e.g., gphoto, for uploading from
a digital camera will have to be rewritten. I don't know how
long that will take. I also don't know if that software handles
your camera. If the camera is at all popular, someone will
undoubtedly write code for it at some point.
--
Leonard Evens [EMAIL PROTECTED] 847-491-5537
Dept. of Mathematics, Northwestern Univ., Evanston, IL 60208
------------------------------
From: Kerry Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Recommended backup routines
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:44:11 -0700
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I'm looking for a good backup routine. I have an entire server
dedicated to doing backups on our local backbone. It has an Athlon 600
MHz processor with 128 MB of RAM. It has two NIC cards and has the very
latest Red Hat 6.2 OS installed. For doing the backups I have a HP
multi-tape storage device that can hold 6 8GB tapes.
What are your experiences with dump/restore and/or BRU. I can easily
but something commercial if needs be, but I was wondering if anyone has
any input on using the Open-Source programs.
Also, I'd be very interested in seeing the manner in which anyone might
back data up. I have about 10 Linux servers that need to be backed up
periodically. I'd like to architecture this correctly now rather than
try to change it later on.
Thanks.
KJ
--
.-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-.
| Kerry J. Cox KSL |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] System Administrator |
| (801) 575-7771 http://www.ksl.com |
| ICQ# 37681165 http://quasi.ksl.com/linux/ |
`-------------------------------------------------------'
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
I'm looking for a good backup routine. I have an entire server dedicated
to doing backups on our local backbone. It has an Athlon 600 MHz
processor with 128 MB of RAM. It has two NIC cards and has the very
latest Red Hat 6.2 OS installed. For doing the backups I have a HP
multi-tape storage device that can hold 6 8GB tapes.
<br>What are your experiences with dump/restore and/or BRU. I can
easily but something commercial if needs be, but I was wondering if anyone
has any input on using the Open-Source programs.
<br>Also, I'd be very interested in seeing the manner in which anyone might
back data up. I have about 10 Linux servers that need to be backed
up periodically. I'd like to architecture this correctly now rather
than try to change it later on.
<br>Thanks.
<br>KJ
<pre>--
.-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-.
| Kerry J. Cox
|KSL
| |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] System
|Administrator
||
| (801) 575-7771 <A
|HREF="http://www.ksl.com">http://www.ksl.com</A>
| |
| ICQ# 37681165 <A
|HREF="http://quasi.ksl.com/linux/">http://quasi.ksl.com/linux/</A>
| |
`-------------------------------------------------------'</pre>
</html>
==============2B3F3C45B3C9BC20B2F7696A==
------------------------------
From: Leonard Evens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Partition disappeared?
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:11:44 -0600
Jordan Hiller wrote:
>
> Michael Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Try fdisk -l /dev/hd? where ? is your hd such as /dev/hda
> > That will spit out the partition table with no risk of writing
> > anything.
> >
> > See what partitions you have. You may have just messed it up
> > so that it's not mounting in /etc/fstab.
>
> fdisk and /etc/fstab look okay - the partitions are there and appear to be
> okay.
>
> I tried "mount /dev/hdc3 /usr" and it worked, I still have my data! *sigh of
> relief* I'm still having problems but it may be because /etc/inittab seems
> to be completely blank. If that's the case, is there a "default" I can
> download somewhere and use without knowing too much about how it works?
>
> Thanks,
> Jordan
You certainly appear to have thoroughly messed something up.
If you have a RedHat system, I would suggest starting from
the installation media and trying the upgrade option. That
should provide you with the default system if it works.
(If you have RedHat 6.1, you have to get the corrected Anaconda
installation updates from the RedHat website Errata or from
a mirror. The original installer upgrade option was buggy.)
If upgrade doesn't work, try reinstalling. If your /home
directory was on a separate partition, it should be possible
to do that without affecting /home. If you upgrade, you won't
affect any additions you made to /usr, assuming it is where it
is expected. But otherwise you will just get an entirely new
/usr. If there are some things you want to save, you should
tar them to an archive somewhere which won't be affected by changes
you make.
Normally, the only thing in /usr that needs saving is
/usr/local/bin. You may also have upgraded various packages,
but you can do those upgrades over again if you have a record
of them.
--
Leonard Evens [EMAIL PROTECTED] 847-491-5537
Dept. of Mathematics, Northwestern Univ., Evanston, IL 60208
------------------------------
From: James Hammerton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Duplex printing
Date: 31 Mar 2000 16:44:14 +0100
Hi,
I recently discovered that the departmental printer (an HP
laserjet8000) supports duplex (double sided) printing. However I don't
know how to access this facility from within linux (and haven't got
much joy by asking the linux users in the department on this front
either). Can anyone help?
James
--
James Hammerton, Department of Computer Science, University College Dublin
WWW Pages: http://www.cs.ucd.ie/staff/jhammerton/
http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~james
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (bill davidsen)
Crossposted-To: nwu.comp.unix.linux,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Large File Support
Date: 31 Mar 2000 15:51:16 GMT
In article <8c1mjp$bmq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Marc SCHAEFER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| In comp.os.linux.development.system David E Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| : I am also interested in large file support. Actually, I don't need the support
| : for ext2 itself, but for writing to a raw device (9Gb scsi disk). The open(2)
| : and, more importantly, lseek(2) commands do not seem to support offsets
| : larger than 31 bits (2Gb). Any ideas? Thanks.
|
| llseek() exists, it allows to do very large seeks on raw devices. Now,
| on the filesystem side, until 2.3.x you won't be able to do it, and you
| also need a recent libc.
Let me try to clarify this is bit. The problem appears not to be with
ext2, but with the VM model of the kernel over which it lies. In other
words, the kernel can't treat >2GB as memory. Friends are running ext2
on ALPHA and say that large files are not a problem.
In 2.3 the VM has been changed, and also the physical memory support.
In any case large files seem to be okay in 2.3, or at least as okay as
small files.
There are also a slew of new filesystems. This is their status AFAIK,
don't take it as gospel, because I'm NOT on the mailing lists.
Reiser beta
ext3 beta
xfs devel (SGI)
jfs devel (IBM)
Other than jfs, I can't say a lot about these, but there is one thing
you must know about journaling f/s in general, as the number of inode
changes goes up, performance goes down. That's file creates and deletes,
and permission changes. On some f/s access time changes are also put in
the journal, which can really hurt performance. See -noatime...
When I was running news in traditional storage mode on AIX (JFS f/s),
I had my journal on solid state disk, and got 2-3x improvement in
performance of certain operations.
Feel free to correct or clarify if I'm behind the times or over
simplified something.
--
bill davidsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CTO, TMR Associates, Inc
"Doing interesting things with little computers since 1979"(tm)
The hardest test of maturity is knowing the difference between
resisting temptation and missing a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.
------------------------------
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rod Smith)
Subject: Re: Weak sound with VIA Apollo Pro
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:04:02 GMT
[Posted and mailed]
In article <8c11cu$bpl$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> I have a Gigabyte GA-6VX-4X motherboard
> which uses VIA Apollo Pro VT82C694X North Bridge
> chip and the VT82C686A South Bridge chip
...
> Under linux Redhat 6.2 kernel 2.2.14, however i
> just cant get the sound to work.
> I compiled in VIA chipset sound option but
> no joy as yet.
Try the ALSA (http://www.alsa-project.org) drivers. They now include a
driver for the VIA 82c686A. This driver works very well for me on my
Compaq Presario 1200-XL106 notebook.
--
Rod Smith, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux networking & WordPerfect for Linux
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Effect of changing group ID?
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:00:53 GMT
Hi,
We have an existing network of SGI boxes to which I've recently added a
Linux box (RH 6.1). On the SGIs the primary work group has gid 22.
Unfortunately, RH Linux uses gid 22 for the utmp group. This causes
problems for working across NFS mounts, etc.
So here are my options, as I see it...
1. Change the gid of the group on the SGIs to something I can match on
linux. I would then have to manually chgrp for several machines, many
users, backups, etc. Not my first choice...
2. Change the gid of the utmp group so I can use the gid 22. Now I
have to figure out what files have this permission and chgrp on them.
What else would this effect?
3. Translate the gid across the NFS mount. I thought there was a way
to do this, but now I can't find it!? Does this sound familiar to
anyone?
Any other ideas/reccomendations?
And what about uid? All of the user accounts on the SGIs have
consistent uid between machines. Should I try to match this on Linux as
well? How would I change the uid on an existing account?
Thanks
Eric
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Rollin Weeks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Successful Multiboot setup when NT Loader owns the Master Boot Record
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:47:26 -0800
There seem to be many questions on this and related topics. There is
a good solution based on the program called "bootpart" and techniques
developed by Gilles Vollant. See the Web page at
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/gvollant/bootpart.htm
Using an earlier version of bootpart, I was able to set up multi-boot
for
NT, Linux, BeOS, and OS/2. Gilles has a FAQ that discusses the
multiboot problem and the method for including LILO for booting. For
Linux, booting is handled by NT Loader; the boot block is placed in the
Linux root partition, NOT in the MBR. Gilles also has a handy routine
for fixing NT's MBR if it gets screwed up.
Booting multiple MS operating systems or OS/2 presents special problems,
which Gilles also discusses in detail. Because of the MS-invented
MONSTROSITY of active, inactive, hidden, primary, virtual HD
partitions, everyone suffers. In particular, all these OSs require a C:
drive,
and ONLY ONE MAY BE ACTIVE AT A TIME. I don't THINK the
NT Loader changes a partition to active when it needs to be booted, For
this reason, I set up an OS/2 Boot partition as one of the things loaded
from the NT Loader menu. This knows how to change partitions back
and forth from active to inactive, so I could boot OS/2 after coming out
of NT, and vice versa.
Last night I did a re-install of Linux on my system. During the
install, I
told it to write the boot sector in the /root partition. Then I ran
bootpart,
and created a boot sector image of Linux's disk for NT Loader. It took
about 10 minutes, and it works great!
Rollin Weeks
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Robert Heininger)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,alt.uu.comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Help please, boot broblem
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:11:54 GMT
On Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:24:58 -0500,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> `Joey Le' wrote:
>one question, is it true that I have to partition, format my computer and
>install windows nt, and then windows 98? I have win98, but I wanted to
>install NT too.
See here about how to set up a dual boot windoze system, and make sure you
leave some room for *Linux*, too. :-)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q243/8/96.ASP
--
Robert Heininger __
# / / __ _ _ _ _ __ __ #
(o- # / /__ / / / \// //_// \ \/ / #
//\ # /____/ /_/ /_/\/ /___/ /_/\_\ #
v_/_ # The Choice of the GNU Generation #
------------------------------
From: Neil Koozer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
uk.comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup,linux.redhat.install
Subject: Re: Help LILO 10101... Problem!!!
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:27:05 -0800
"Cameron L. Spitzer" wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marc wrote:
> >Martin wrote:
> >>
> >> When installing RH 6.1 on my system after the LILO configuration has
> >> completed upon rebooting my system I get the 10101010... string running
> >> accross the screen. I then have to boot into DOS and "fdisk /mbr". I have an
> >> IBM Deskstar 20.5GB drive with 2 partitions of 10GB running Win 98 and a 4GB
> >> Quantumn Fireball running Linux. I did not have any probs with LILO before
> >> the IBM drive was installed.
>
> The automatic stuff in RH 6.1 does not handle large hard drives
> properly. Complain to Red Hat.
> Meanwhile, make a boot floppy. It will save you aggravation.
>
> > I have two hard disks in the computer, one is fixed the other is in a
> >removable drawer.
>
> Make a boot floppy. It will save you aggravation.
> Lilo is not well suited to environments where the disk configuration
> changes all the time.
You may wish to try the nuni boot loader. It eliminates the relevance
of cyl 1024, and other bios related problems because it does not use the
bios.
Also, nuni has a mini boot manager called 'nunimbr', which allows you to
choose any arbitrary partition at boot time so you can boot systems
after changing things around without any setup or alteration of nunimbr.
You can get nuni-0.08 at
ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/boot/loaders/
Neil.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Harold Stevens ** PLEASE SEE SIG **)
Subject: (OT) Duplex printing
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:24:53 GMT
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, James Hammerton:
[Snip...]
|> know how to access this facility from within linux (and haven't got
|> much joy by asking the linux users in the department on this front
|> either).
Perhaps because Linux itself doesn't care whether you print duplex or not? :)
Kinda like asking a mechanic to redecorate your kitchen. :)
|> Can anyone help?
[Snip...]
You can, by letting us know if this printer has a Postscript emulation mode
*and* you can use it for this particular task in this mode. Postscript will
allow duplex *on duplex enabled printers* with
%%BeginFeature:*Duplex
<</Duplex true>>setpagedevice % 0 BeginPage
%%EndFeature
at the beginning of the print stream going to the printer.
I know you mentioned HP laserjet8000 but I haven't got the time to check it
for Postscript emulation, nor your ability to use that mode, if available.
HTH.
--
Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
Pardon the bogus email domain (dseg etc.) in place for spambots.
Really it's (wyrd) at raytheon, dotted with com. DO NOT SPAM IT.
Standard Disclaimer: These are my opinions not Raytheon Company.
------------------------------
From: Bill Delphenich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Duplex printing
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:25:57 -0500
James Hammerton wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I recently discovered that the departmental printer (an HP
> laserjet8000) supports duplex (double sided) printing. However I don't
> know how to access this facility from within linux (and haven't got
> much joy by asking the linux users in the department on this front
> either). Can anyone help?
>
> James
>
> --
> James Hammerton, Department of Computer Science, University College Dublin
> WWW Pages: http://www.cs.ucd.ie/staff/jhammerton/
> http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~james
I am printing to an HP 8000 using the "HP LaserJet III with duplex
capability" as the filter in printtool. It works fine for me. I am using
ghostscript 5.10 that comes with RH 6.1.
HTH.
------------------------------
From: Neil Koozer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Lilo question:How to move Linux Drive to secondary IDE port.
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:42:43 -0800
"Cameron L. Spitzer" wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, John in SD wrote:
[...]
> That is not true.
[...]
> But it's rude to tell
> other people that they can't do it just because you can't be
> bothered to figure out how.
Hey dude, John in SD is the author of the additional part of lilo to
make it handle the extended int13 calls. He converted version 21 to
version 21.3 and 21.4 using his own knowledge of lilo. I think he did
bother to see how lilo works.
Neil.
------------------------------
From: "Jeff Susanj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: delete user account
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:31:13 GMT
Have you tried to log in as the user to see if their account is gone? If
they can't log in, then recursively deleting their home directory should
take care of it. One of the graphical user account tools would also be a
good way to see if the user is still there.
Jeff S.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message <8c1423$ehh$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>under root (login as su)
>/usr/sbin/userdel -r username
>to remove user from system.
>it said username doesn't exist.
>but under /home ,I still found the username that I just deleted.
>why? which commands to use in Redhat to delete user account from system.
>I follow instructions exactly Linux System Admin Guides. so how?
>thanks in advanced
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Jeff Susanj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Partition disappeared?
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:42:45 GMT
Go ahead and learn how it works. It's not too complicated. A default
version of the file wouldn't be correct for your set-up anyway. Using
linuxconf should make setting up the table fairly painless.
Jeff S.
Jordan Hiller wrote in message ...
>I tried "mount /dev/hdc3 /usr" and it worked, I still have my data! *sigh
of
>relief* I'm still having problems but it may be because /etc/inittab seems
>to be completely blank. If that's the case, is there a "default" I can
>download somewhere and use without knowing too much about how it works?
>
>Thanks,
>Jordan
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Jeff Susanj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RedHat gets "echo" wrong
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:44:54 GMT
I have had the same problem on a Sun running Solaris. All I wanted to do is
put the host name in the window header. Several sources said I could do it
with escape codes but all the Sun does is print out exactly what I put in.
Jeff S.
Craig Macbride wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>The RedHat 6.1 man entry for echo claims that "Without -E, the following
>sequences are recognized and interpolated:" and then gives the backslash
>escapes that have been common in some Unixes for many years. However,
>in reality, the echo command defaults to not understanding those escapes!
>What's worse, the bash builtin doesn't recognise them either.
>
>Does anyone know whether RedHat is likely to fix this error and whether
>they'll change the man entry or the commands?
>
>This situation is an utter pain for anyone attempting to port software
>from other Unix platforms. The hard job of providing binary compatibility
>with other x86 Unix variants has been done pretty well, yet the easy job
>of providing compatible shells and simple commands has been screwed up
>badly.
>
>For those who don't wish to download the source and rebuild bash, is
>there a version around which defaults to the desired (and documented)
>action?
>
>--
> Craig Macbride <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>-----------------------http://www.nyx.net/~cmacbrid------------------------
> "It's a sense of humour like mine, Carla, that makes me proud
> to be ashamed of myself." - Captain Kremmen
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
