Linux-Misc Digest #106, Volume #28 Thu, 14 Jun 01 06:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: A plea to those posting questions (Bob Holtzman)
Re: insmod? (David)
Re: vi settings (Federico Bravo)
Re: what was that game? (David)
Re: insmod? ("Tom Edelbrok")
Re: ATI Xpert 98 with Xfree86 4.1.0 under Debian 2.2r3 (fred smith)
Re: vi settings (fred smith)
Re: What to use to write my thesis? (Wyatt R Johnson)
Re: Japanese support in Linux? (Stefano Ghirlanda)
Re: Cannot open master raw device '/dev/rawctl' (No such device) (Michael Heiming)
Re: Using CD-RW for backups ("Peet Grobler")
Re: Reiserfs problems or hardware ? ("Peet Grobler")
Re: Kernel messages: is it really hd? ("Peet Grobler")
Re: depmod required? (Michael Heiming)
Re: depmod required? ("Peet Grobler")
Re: Still having emacs trouble (Ransom)
Re: Hard Drive Re-partitioning (John Thompson)
Re: Hard Drive Re-partitioning (John Thompson)
Re: safety net (Jean-David Beyer)
Re: What to use to write my thesis? (Jean-David Beyer)
Re: What to use to write my thesis? (Alien Guest)
Re: What to use to write my thesis? (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_P=F6nitz?=)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Holtzman)
Crossposted-To: redhat.general
Subject: Re: A plea to those posting questions
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 06:32:09 GMT
On Sun, 10 Jun 2001 09:43:25 +0200, Peter T. Breuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>jeff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>It does matter. A fundamental principle of the internet (and usenet) is
>that you do not falsify source addresses. By munging your address you
>strike a blow against communication as morally damaging in its way as
>the physical abuse by spammers (who also falsify their address). Fight
>spammers the correct way: dump mail that is not addressed to you
>directly, and report every instance that still gets through to
>abuse@the_last_relay. The RFC for usenet says the From: field must
>contain your address.
It seems no one in this thread has addressed the problem of a user with a
paid for news feed that has a cap on downloads. If part of this is taken
up with spam, he's paying for it. In that case he would be more than
justified in munging his address.
--
Bob Holtzman
to reply by email remove "fake"
"If you think you're getting free lunch
......check the price of the beer!"
------------------------------
From: David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: insmod?
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 06:48:47 GMT
Tom Edelbrok wrote:
>
> I am happily running on my new kernel 2.2.14, Redhat.
>
> One nuisance still remains - one of my two NIC's, (A Linksys LNE100TX)
> doesn't load automatically. Instead I have to do a couple of "insmod"s and
> an "ifup eth1" to get it going.
>
> Where do the "insmod"s normally get executed from during system bootup? How
> can I locate where the system is trying to do them (if it is even trying),
> so that I can solve the problem? I have easily fixed the problem by putting
> the "insmod"s and "ifup eth1" into rc.local, but I would rather solve the
> problem properly - only I don't know what part of the system is responsible
> for doing the insmod, and how it does it.
>
> Tom
Add a line in /etc/modules.conf or conf.modules depending which your
system uses like this.
alias eth0 tulip
Then you can either run "netcfg" and set it to activate eth0 at boot
time. Or you can edit the "ONBOOT=" line in the
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 has "yes" in it instead of
"no" without quotes.
--
Confucius say: He who play in root, eventually kill tree.
Registered with the Linux Counter. http://counter.li.org
ID # 123538
Completed more W/U's than 99.251% of seti users. +/- 0.01%
------------------------------
From: Federico Bravo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: vi settings
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 06:56:27 GMT
I actually don't understand what you mean. I use vi on my RedHat 7.0 and
it is perfectly equal to the one I used 15 years ago. Nevertheless I'm
getting to enjoying vi.
Federico Bravo.
p8r wrote:
> OK, this is driving me crazy ... since *when* did vi become an html
> editor??? How can I disable this (disgusting) feature? I suppose I
> could just adapt and just ":!vim (filename)" instead of bang-vi, but
> decades-old habits are tough to kill, sometimes. :) aTdHvAaNnKcSe
>
> p8r
------------------------------
From: David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: what was that game?
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 06:55:56 GMT
Jcarnes wrote:
>
> I am trying to find the name and eventually the source code for a game that
> came with one of the 6.x versions of Red Hat linux. It might have been
> "marbles" or "sameGame"? It was played by clicking on a colored sphere, and
> all like-colored spheres touching it would then disappear, and the stack
> would drop down.... Any Ideas?
> thanks
The game is "same-gnome" and is included in the "gnome-games" package.
--
Confucius say: He who play in root, eventually kill tree.
Registered with the Linux Counter. http://counter.li.org
ID # 123538
Completed more W/U's than 99.251% of seti users. +/- 0.01%
------------------------------
From: "Tom Edelbrok" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: insmod?
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:00:58 GMT
I already have ONBOOT=YES. I use bootp because eth1 is the external
interface to the internet on DSL. Here is the file:
DEVICE=eth1
BOOTPROTO=bootp
ONBOOT=yes
Keep in mind that if I reboot under my older kernel 2.2.5-15 the Linksys
card (with the same tulip driver and ifcfg-eth1 comes up fine, automatically
without my having to do the insmod's for it!).
Secondly, if I run netcfg I get the following error:
TclError: no display name and no $DISPLAY environment variable.
I will have to check this out. In the mean time if you know how to fix this
let me know.
Thanks,
Tom
David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Tom Edelbrok wrote:
> >
> > I am happily running on my new kernel 2.2.14, Redhat.
> >
> > One nuisance still remains - one of my two NIC's, (A Linksys LNE100TX)
> > doesn't load automatically. Instead I have to do a couple of "insmod"s
and
> > an "ifup eth1" to get it going.
> >
> > Where do the "insmod"s normally get executed from during system bootup?
How
> > can I locate where the system is trying to do them (if it is even
trying),
> > so that I can solve the problem? I have easily fixed the problem by
putting
> > the "insmod"s and "ifup eth1" into rc.local, but I would rather solve
the
> > problem properly - only I don't know what part of the system is
responsible
> > for doing the insmod, and how it does it.
> >
> > Tom
>
>
> Add a line in /etc/modules.conf or conf.modules depending which your
> system uses like this.
>
> alias eth0 tulip
>
> Then you can either run "netcfg" and set it to activate eth0 at boot
> time. Or you can edit the "ONBOOT=" line in the
> /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 has "yes" in it instead of
> "no" without quotes.
>
>
> --
> Confucius say: He who play in root, eventually kill tree.
> Registered with the Linux Counter. http://counter.li.org
> ID # 123538
> Completed more W/U's than 99.251% of seti users. +/- 0.01%
------------------------------
From: fred smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ATI Xpert 98 with Xfree86 4.1.0 under Debian 2.2r3
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:37:54 GMT
Brian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Hi,
: I recently installed Debian 2.2r3. I thought it would be good practice for
: me to just install the base packages and build the rest from scratch with
: new packages. So anyway, everything was going fine up until I tried to get
: XFree86 v4.1.0 on there. It installed fine, no errors or anything, but it
: doesn't seem to like my wonderful ATI Xpert (Rage 128) 98. I've tried the
: "Ati Rage 128", "Ati Xpert 98", and the "FBDev" (Frame Buffer) drivers, none
: of which worked. My experience with previous versions of XFree86 has been
: that the ATI card will only work only with the Frame Buffer driver.
I've got an 8meg Xpert98 which runs quite nicely with Xfree 3.whatever
that comes with RH 6.2 using the Mach64 driver. Does not require the
FB driver.
I've not yet tried it with RH 7.x and XFree 4.x.x.
--
---- Fred Smith -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----------------------------
"For him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his
glorious presence without fault and with great joy--to the only God our Savior
be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before
all ages, now and forevermore! Amen."
============================= Jude 1:24,25 (niv) =============================
------------------------------
From: fred smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: vi settings
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:46:59 GMT
p8r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: OK, this is driving me crazy ... since *when* did vi become an html
: editor??? How can I disable this (disgusting) feature? I suppose I
: could just adapt and just ":!vim (filename)" instead of bang-vi, but
: decades-old habits are tough to kill, sometimes. :) aTdHvAaNnKcSe
Obviously vi isn't an html editor (except in the sense it'll edit
anything that consists of ascii text characters).
Some vi clones make an attempt to render html in a sensible manner. I
don't happen to know if VIM does since I don't use VIM. But Elvis does
too, and does a decent job of it, mostly (Elvis' help system is written
in html). You can switch from whatever the current mode is to the plain
text mode by doing ^W-d, and do it again to swtich back. Or issue the
command: "dis nor"
Fred
--
---- Fred Smith -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----------------------------
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this:
While we were still sinners,
Christ died for us.
=============================== Romans 5:8 (niv) ==============================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wyatt R Johnson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc,comp.text.tex
Subject: Re: What to use to write my thesis?
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:27:01 +0000 (UTC)
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Brady Montz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wroot) writes:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm wondering what software or standars people would recommend for writing
>> technical scientific papers and a thesis?
>>
>> If I understand correctly, the main options are MS Word and LaTeX. If I
>> choose the former, I'll have to find a Windows machine or a Mac (I prefer
>> Linux and FreeBSD). OTOH, LaTeX requires considerable learning.
>>
>> Thanks
>
Adding my own $.02, I heartily agree that latex is the way to go, especially
if you have numerous equations. Most of my gray hairs are the direct result
of struggling with Equation Editor. First, it is quite annoying to have
to type in an equation through a GUI. And if you make a mistake, or want
to expand on something -- forget it. Equation editor refuses to
line up my equations consistently, and well, I could go on and on on how
much I cant stand Eq. Editor.
Wyatt
--
"This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously
considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of
no value to us."
--Western Union internal memo, 1876.
------------------------------
From: Stefano Ghirlanda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Japanese support in Linux?
Date: 14 Jun 2001 09:39:23 +0200
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aeris Gainsborough) writes:
> I am wanting to set up a system for dual boot using the Japanese
> version of Win98 and Linux. Would Linux support a Japanese keyboard
> and let me type either kana or romaji? What software support and
> issues are there for using Japanese in Linux?
I know there is a Japanese distribution based on RedHat but
unfortunately I can't remember the name. My japanese friend was quite
happy with it.
--
Stefano - Hodie postridie Idus Iunias MMI est
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:59:53 +0200
From: Michael Heiming <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Cannot open master raw device '/dev/rawctl' (No such device)
Sean Marshall wrote:
>
> After upgrading from the standard redhat 7.0 kernel to kernel 2.2.19 I
> find I cannot access rawdevices such as hard drives. When I run the raw
>
> -qa command I get the following error message Cannot open master raw
> device '/dev/rawctl' (No such device)
Looks as if you wouldn't have /dev/rawctl.
Read:
/usr/src/linux/Documentation/devices.txt
and 'man mknod', which is the tool you need to create devices.
However, are you sure /dev/rawctl is a real device and not just
a link to /dev/raw(n), I never saw /dev/rawctl?
Good luck
Michael Heiming
------------------------------
From: "Peet Grobler" <peetgr at absa.co.za>
Subject: Re: Using CD-RW for backups
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:58:25 +0200
I've been using CDRW for automated backups for a while now. It's very
reliable, provided you test the first few disks that are created. I'd say if
the first one works, and you can restore from it, the following ones will
work. Except for CDRW failure, of course. It's a good idea to try and mount
CD's once you backed up to them, and see if you can read the files (pick a
few).
Lee Allen wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>We are considering using CD-RW for backups, instead of tape drives. I
>know it's possible, but does it really really work -- reliably?
>
>Does anyone have actual experience of performing backups to CD-RW on a
>regular basis over a long term?
>
>Thanks for any & all feedback.
>
>-Lee Allen
------------------------------
From: "Peet Grobler" <peetgr at absa.co.za>
Subject: Re: Reiserfs problems or hardware ?
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:00:19 +0200
I would suggest posting this message to their support on their website.
Maybe they can tell you what it is, and fix it for you. I've noticed the
documentation being full of "BUGS : None found yet, please report if you
find one".
I'm pretty sure if they can't fix it, they can tell you what's wrong...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message ...
>
>I had a similar problem with 2.4.5 and reiserfs. At first I thought it
>was that I had enabled DMA (something I had never done before). My only
>recourse was to reformat and restore from a backup. Out of curiousity, I
>kept DMA enabled and went back to ext2. No problems since then, so I'm
>now thinking it's a reiserfs problem.
>
>Adam
>
>On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, VP wrote:
>
>> I can't mount my sdb7 reiserfs partition (I have there some importante
>> files, my sources codes)
>>
>> When I going to mount the partition the kernel(2.4.5) crash with this
>> logs
>>
>> ..Jun 12 23:12:32 zendo kernel: ReiserFS version 3.6.25
>> ..ernel: reiserfs: checking transaction log (device 08:17) ...
>> ..kernel: scsi0: ERROR on channel 0, id 1,\
>> lun 0, CDB: 0x28 00 01 13 54 70 00 00 08 00
>> .. kernel: Info fld=0x1135470, Current sd08:17: sns = f0 3
>> .. do kernel: ASC=11 ASCQ= 0
>> .. kernel: Raw sense data:0xf0 0x00\
>> 0x03 0x01 0x13 0x54 0x70 0x18 0x00 0x00 0x00\
>> 0x00 0x11 0x00 0x00 0x80 0x00 0x35 0x00\
>> 0x00 0x10 0x66 0x00 0x00 0x0c 0x6e 0x02 0x6c 0x00 0x6c 0x00 0x00
>> .. o kernel: I/O error: dev 08:17, sector 50256
>> l: Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer\
>> dereference at virtual address 00000034
>> .. kernel: printing eip:
>> .. kernel: c019843f
>> .. kernel: *pde = 00000000
>> ..Jun 12 23:13:51 xxx kernel: Oops: 0000
>> ...Jun 12 23:13:51 xxx kernel: CPU: 0
>> .. kernel: EIP: 0010:[journal_transaction_is_valid+15/416]
>> .. kernel: EFLAGS: 00010282
>> .. kernel: eax: 00000000 ebx: 00000000 ecx: dcffde40 edx: dcffde40
>>
>> ..kernel: esi: db3f2000 edi: 0000188a ebp: ddd14800 esp: d994de10
>> ..kernel: ds: 0018 es: 0018 ss: 0018
>> ..kernel: Process mount (pid: 589, stackpage=d994d000)
>> ..ernel: Stack: 00000000 db3f2000 0000188a ddd14800\
>> dcffde8c c0198db2 ddd14800 00000000\
>> ..kernel: d994de74 d994de78 00000817 0000188a\
>> 00001000 ddd14800 00000000 c032f720
>> ...kernel: 00004000 00000001 00000001 db6ad000 00000014\
>> 000016fb 3b26a22c 00: Call Trace: [journal_read+482/1056]\
>> [journal_init+678/832] [reiserfs_read_super+237/1040]\
>> [get_empty_super+76/416] [read_super+99/176]\
>> [get_sb_bdev+347/448] [error_code+52/60]
>> .. kernel: [do_mount+373/688]..
>>
>> Is a Hardware problem i try averything with the reiserfs utilities ,
>> but nothing ..
>> Any hlep is apreciated
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> VP
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
------------------------------
From: "Peet Grobler" <peetgr at absa.co.za>
Subject: Re: Kernel messages: is it really hd?
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:06:23 +0200
/snip/
>
>The 2.4.X kernel is your problem here. Boot from the 2.2.XX kernel and
>your problems will disappear.
>
>I installed Red Hat 7.1 on a system which gave the exact same error
>messages with RH's 2.4.2 kernel and got rid of the problem by installing a
>2.2.19 kernel.
>
>Fundamentally, if you are using legacy hardware then use a legacy kernel.
I've had the same messages in 2.0.35 and 2.2.18. I don't think it's a kernel
problem.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:12:02 +0200
From: Michael Heiming <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: depmod required?
Tom Edelbrok wrote:
>
> When I finish building a kernel (making bzimage, modules, modules_install,
> etc) I am told by one person that I should always do a "depmod -a <new
> kernel version>".
>
> For example:
>
> depmod -a 2.2.14
>
> However, several other Linux-type gurus tell me that this step is not
> required.
It can't be a mistake to run it. However, it's run from /etc/rc.d/boot
case you reboot, so you really don't need to do it...
Michael Heiming
------------------------------
From: "Peet Grobler" <peetgr at absa.co.za>
Subject: Re: depmod required?
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:11:49 +0200
As soon as you [de]select any new modules in the make config/menuconfig, you
should do a 'depmod -a'. If you're compiling a different version kernel, you
should do it as well.
What 'depmod' do, is it creates a file containing all the modules (as
selected in make config), and their dependencies. If you're compiling the
same kernel as your box is using, it should not be necessary unless you
selected new modules. A new kernel requires this file, though, to load
modules.
I think...
Peet
Tom Edelbrok wrote in message ...
>When I finish building a kernel (making bzimage, modules, modules_install,
>etc) I am told by one person that I should always do a "depmod -a <new
>kernel version>".
>
>For example:
>
>depmod -a 2.2.14
>
>However, several other Linux-type gurus tell me that this step is not
>required.
>
>It creates the /lib/modules/2.2.14/modules.dep file. What is this file used
>for and is it really necessary to create this file when rebuilding a
kernel?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Tom Edelbrok,
>KNB
>
>(KNB = Kernel NewBie)
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: Ransom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Still having emacs trouble
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:10:33 +0200
On Wednesday 13 June 2001 06:37 mndoci wrote:
> Hi folks
>
>
>snip>
>
> On mandrake 7.1 (using KDE) I get grey shading on any text when I
> use
> emacs (no such problems with xemacs). If I login as root, I have
> no
> such trouble. I proceeded to replace my .Xdefaults with that of
> root
> and deleted my .emacs file. However the problem still persists.
>
> Any other suggestions. Its a pain working through text that is
> shaded, especially when I work remotely on machines which only
> have emacs and not xemacs.
>
<snip>
This could be caused by a seting in kde. Open Control
Center->Look&feel->Style. See if 'Apply fonts and colors to non-KDE
apps' is checked. Uncheck and you should be ok.
HTH,
Ransom
------------------------------
From: John Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Hard Drive Re-partitioning
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:18:05 -0500
Steve Martin wrote:
> John Thompson wrote:
>
> > Thanks for responding. The drive itself is a 9G Seagate in an
> > external enclosure attached to an Adaptec 2490 HBA. It is the
> > only external device; internally, there are two 2G Seagate
> > drives, an Exabyte tape drive and a 40x HP CDROM drive. All the
> > devices are ercognized by the HBA when the system boots and all
> > have unique SCSI ID's assigned. All the internal devices work
> > fine; only the external drive is giving us problems. Both ends
> > of the SCSI chain are terminated.
> Sorr to harp on this, but I'm just trying to be thorough and
> not miss anything. When you say "both ends of the SCSI chain
> are terminated", exactly how are they terminated? Does the
> drive itself have termination, or are you using an external
> termination on the cable? Normally, the controller card
> acts as the termination on that end of the cable, and you
> only terminate the far end, either with the last drive in
> the chain or else with a separate termination. Can you provide
> more details?
Both the device on the end of the internal cable and the external
HD device are jumpered for termination. No other devices are
terminated. We have configured the HBA for both "auto
termination" and "disable termination" with no joy.
> > The linux kernel identifies the device as "SCSI device sdc
> > 17755614 512-byte hdwr sectors (9091MB)" but the next line reads
> > "sdc: unknown partition table"
> Well, I guess I'd expect that, as you indicated that you were
> having trouble partitioning the drive.
>
> I suppose it's possible that you simply have a bad drive. Did
> you just purchase it, or is it one you've had around for a
> while? If it's new, maybe you can swap it for another one?
It is a NOS full-height drive, not a currently produced model but
ostensibly unused prior to this. My next attampt will be to hook
the drive onto the internal cable to try to determine if the
cable may be the problem.
--
-John ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
------------------------------
From: John Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Hard Drive Re-partitioning
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:19:10 -0500
Yvan Loranger wrote:
> John Thompson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes:
> > Steve Martin wrote:
> > [...]
> >> Can you elaborate on "Parition Magic crashes"? Does it just
> >> dump core ungracefully, or does it give any error messages
> >> when it departs? For that matter, if you can lay your hands on
> >> a DOS / Win9x boot disk, can you partition the disk with
> >> that? Although not ideal for Linux use, this at least will
> >> give some indication whether the hardware is indeed crappy.
> >> Some more verbose error messages might help diagnosis.
> >
> > We have attempted to partition the unit using Partition Magic
> > v6.0, which fails with a write error writing the partition table
> > or simply hangs without completing. OS/2 fdisk will partition
> > the drive without complaint, but upon reboot the partitions are
> > no longer found. Linux fdisk, cfdisk and sfdisk all appear to
> > write the partition table, but when examined later no partitions
> > are found.
> > [...]
>
> A real shot in the dark but you don't have the bios setting to 'lock from
> modification' the master boot record? [not sure if it applies to scsi]
I don't think this applies. The SCSI HBA has it's own BIOS which
recognizes the drive just fine.
--
-John ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
------------------------------
From: Jean-David Beyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: safety net
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 05:38:31 -0400
* Tong * wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to setup/access a font server. The XFree86 is very picky
> about the font path setting and it hung my Linux entirely if
> anything goes wrong a tiny bit. So I was forced to reset my machine
> from time to time, thus causing my Linux do fsck all the time.
>
> So I'm wondering, is there some precaution steps that I can take
> before trying those risky stuff. I mean what can I do when I over
> 90% sure that next command will hung the linux. The only command
> that I know is sync. What else I can do? thanks.
>
Make a backup of your entire file system every day. Then if the worst
possible think happens, you can always reinstall your system and
restore all your files.
--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 73926.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 5:35am up 6 days, 18:30, 4 users, load average: 2.07, 2.08, 2.08
------------------------------
From: Jean-David Beyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc,comp.text.tex
Subject: Re: What to use to write my thesis?
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 05:55:55 -0400
Wroot wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm wondering what software or standars people would recommend for writing
> technical scientific papers and a thesis?
>
> If I understand correctly, the main options are MS Word and LaTeX. If I
> choose the former, I'll have to find a Windows machine or a Mac (I prefer
> Linux and FreeBSD). OTOH, LaTeX requires considerable learning.
>
I suggest LaTex or Lyx. For a thesis, probably LaTex would be the way
to go.
There are several reasons for my suggestion:
1.) With Microsoft Word, what the thing looks like depends too much on
what release of the software you have. It also depends on what release
of the software the person receiving the document has. I frequently
get Microsoft Word documents that look like hell, but the sender
asserts look good. And I know they look as good to the sender as Word
is capable of producing because I also get .pdf files of them and they
are OK. But on my old machine I have Microsoft Word 7.00 or 7.0a (I
forget which), and I cannot read anything newer than that and I refuse
to send Bill Gates anymore money for an upgrade. I can import the Word
documents into my Applix words program (unless they used the default
fast-save feature), but the scaling of the type fonts usually results
in widows and orphans. Just not acceptable.
2.) There are some technical publications that accept only troff or
Tex-like source. If you want to publish in one of those, you will not
be wanting to use Microsoftware.
3.) If you absolutely must have a WYSIWYG interface, and I sometimes
like it, you can run LaTex or Lyx in one window and ghostview in
another. Then whenever you tell LaTex to run on your document,
ghostview shows you what you will be getting.
4.) I prefer to deal with the content of the document first, and then
diddle the formatting, if necessary, later. LaTex supports this mode
of working. With Word, the users spend so much time getting the format
correct that the basic structure and content of the document are
compormised. Do not let this happen to you.
--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 73926.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 5:45am up 6 days, 18:40, 3 users, load average: 2.26, 2.14, 2.10
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alien Guest)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc,comp.text.tex
Subject: Re: What to use to write my thesis?
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:58:52 GMT
>If I understand correctly, the main options are MS Word and LaTeX. If I
>choose the former, I'll have to find a Windows machine or a Mac (I prefer
>Linux and FreeBSD). OTOH, LaTeX requires considerable learning.
If you'd *have to find* a PC or Mac, then stay away from it.
I have used both, MS seems easy to start with, ie, you know little,
just type simple doc and it prints almost as you've typed. But when
you are going to do a large document with a few chapters and try to
put them together, with references, pages, contents generating, it is
just a nightmare. You'll spend longer time to make it right then to
learn LaTex.
-Alien
-Alien
------------------------------
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_P=F6nitz?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.apps.word-proc,comp.text.tex
Subject: Re: What to use to write my thesis?
Date: 14 Jun 2001 10:04:09 GMT
In comp.text.tex Wroot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm wondering what software or standars people would recommend for writing
> technical scientific papers and a thesis?
>
> If I understand correctly, the main options are MS Word and LaTeX.
Word is not really an option for writing papers with math.
> If I choose the former, I'll have to find a Windows machine or a Mac (I
> prefer Linux and FreeBSD). OTOH, LaTeX requires considerable learning.
LaTeX learning is worthwhile. And you can ease the pain considerably by
reading a good book and/or using a frontend like LyX.
LaTeX has a few additional advantages. You can be pretty sure to be able to
process your documents in ten years time without changes and your
printouts will look the same on every system. You can use LaTeX documents
without LaTeX (e.g. for converting to HTML), but you can't really use Word
documents without some version of Word. LaTeX is available on a lot more
platforms than Word, so co-operation with colleagues is much easier.
Andre'
--
Andr� P�nitz ............................................. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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